The ratio of good to bad players that I face on GGPO is much better than on HDR, and the “bad” players on GGPO are usually better than HDR’s bad players, from my experience. That’s not to say that HDR is bad. Not nearly. And hey, maybe other people have had different experiences than I have, but for me, ST on GGPO has been better for me in just about every way.
Oh yea. I can definitely understand your logic. I would imagine the ratio would be better for the following reason: mostly Old school players are playing Vanilla ST on GGPO since they’ve patiently played this game since 199X, it goes to follow that you would have more die-hard players on GGPO, hence a better ratio.
I guess it just boils down to personal preference. I prefer HD Remix because it is the newer incarnation that old and newer blood are playing, and that if I’m going to invest the time playing, I’d prefer to learn the newer “update” that will continue the series. There was no sense in sticking to “World Warrior” when people are going towards “Hyperfighting”, and there would be no sense to me playing “Classic” when the world is going “HD Remix”.
Ye but it’s not established if HDR will be the new standard.
True, but if the history of Street Fighter reincarnations replacing each other is any indicator, HDR will likely be the new standard, or dare I say SFIV?
Changes usually go forward. This is a fact.
Actually Wiz said that if people don’t like HDR then there is no ST at all at Evo. Of course he could change his mind but still any SF2 is better than none (except for WW…)
this has probably been asked a million times so forgive me, but is classic mode not a good substitute for DC ST? (I assume wiz is fed with running tourneys on DCs?)
Yeah I’d think it should be also, who knows anymore lol.
And now Sirlin will have SF2’s blood on his hands.
Dear god, I never thought I’d see this day.
SF2 dead, no more. And right when I fucking got in to the thing too.
Doubt it. The game is given at a great price. A huge player base to play from. EVO coverage.
Mostly the only ones complaining tend to be OG Street Fighter fans who’ve gotten used to Vanilla, and don’t care to embrace HD. How many players do you know introduced to HD Remix first have gone back to play Vanilla ST? You can count them on your hand if you know any.
Thanks to Sirlin, interest in ST (Vanilla or HD) has been resparked, new blood has entered the game, and I am grateful to him whether or not there is agreement on the changes made to the system.
I’m gonna need quite a few hands for that.
the complaints against HDR have merit.
The complaints against ST also have merit as well. Can anybody say “Balrog Throw loop?”, Claw walldive knockdown loop?
Regardless, as the newer version and representation at EVO, HDR will be leading the way for a while.
As dumb as those loops are, the game is still really deep.
What HDR did was dumb the game down into something that 11 year olds can pick up and play. Vanilla ST, on the other hand, was a game that you actually needed some dedication to master.
“pick up and play” is not the same as “to master” remember that
Yes, and this is a very good thing. If you want a game to be relevant at all, there has to be a gentle learning curve for new players to be able to come in and keep the game popular. HDR already has enough going against it when it comes to picking up new players, since a lot of the players have been playing ST for 10+ years and are such overwhelming competition to a newbie that it’s no longer fun to play at all. When a new player comes on and 9 times out of 10 he gets completely crushed because everyone has a huge experience advantage, most of the time the first response is to simply find something else to play. Over time, you end up with a few new players who stuck it out like me, everybody else moves on, and you’re largely back where you started. If you don’t constantly work on bringing in new players, or even worse actively making things harder for them, the game just ends up stagnating and the player base recesses to a small dedicated group that just plays amongst themselves because they’re the only ones left to play against. They become the best in the world at that game, but that’s partly because nobody cares anymore.
Also, if you’re trying to make the point that it doesn’t take dedication to master HDR, then you’re just fooling yourself. I’ve been playing it since day 1 with no prior ST experience and I know for a fact that amongst top level competition I’m still really really bad.
perhaps you should play super turbo before declaring it impossible to get into
Please quote where I said it was impossible to get into. That’s not what I said at all and you know it.
You said it was hard for casual gamers/people new to fighters to get into. I disagree. It’s still Street Fighter 2, the game that got everyone into Street Fighter. The only difference is that it’s been beefed up and it’s faster. There were fast Street Fighter games before it so that isn’t the problem.
Original Super Turbo faded fast because there were a whole lot of other fighting games in 1994 and another Street Fighter update wasn’t going to cut it along with it not having a console release (aside from the 3DO). It wasn’t because it had a steep learning curve.
No one wants a massively relevant game they simply want a hardcore balanced fighter. If you want a game with mass appeal stick to World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy, or Halo. Fighting games or RTS games or any other small genre are meant for hardcore gamers and enthusiasts who don’t care about learning curves.
HDR was only made because hardcore players kept the ST scene around for 15 years. No new players came into ST over the last five years to magically revive the scene to create a demand for HDR. HDR was an idea by a tournament player (David Sirlin) who pitched the idea to Capcom and they gave him the all clear after his success with CCC (despite the lag) and HD Puzzle Fighter. The only thing that kept SFII relevant was things like EVO, SBO, X-Mania…hardcore scenes.
And HDR is easy as hell to get into compared to ST 15 years ago. There are so many wikis, forums, and tutorial videos via YouTube about SF2 that a total novice could reach competency with a character within a month by reading and practicing. Just search YouTube for ‘Sirlin tutorial’ and have at it. Or read this forum and the wiki.
The only way to get better is to play better competition. If you are playing truly better opponents you are going to lose and lose often. You are defending the sore losers and scrubs or rage quitters who would quit after taking one loss. If you don’t like winning don’t play fighting games then because fighting games always have a loser every match. Even pro players get crushed at high levels. Double perfects, OVCs, or just complete beatings…this happens at EVO and SBO and not just on online play. If everyone walked away from fighting games after taking a big loss then no one would be left to play.
You don’t want to newbies to lose at fighting games but you want newbies to be able to get better at the game quickly? How can they get better without losing? Even if you are facing equal competition you should be winning only half of your matches (or 5/10). Taking a loss half of the games you play would make most people give up. And guess what? Good riddance.
If you lose a match then record and post it and have people offer you advice. Or just ask people about match up tips and tricks or watch more videos. Complaining that your competition is too good is insane.
A T.Hawk player on this forum was wondering why his jumping jab ticks were never working against Dictator in HDR so he asked why in the T.Hawk thread…well someone answered that jumping jab doesn’t connect on a crouching Dictator. Lesson learned. He didn’t move on to another game in a fit of rage he learned and adapted.
Against good competition in ST & VF5 I lose the majority of my matches without question. But, I know I’m at least pushing myself against good competition, and not getting easy wins against total newbies who idea what they are doing against me.
And if I kill someone in HDR online I always send the same message saying ‘Go to SRK.com and lurk around the HDR forums and read as much as you can if you want to get a lot better quickly’.
Years ago when Alpha 3 was at its peak players like Daigo, Valle, Choi, and then later Justin with MvC2 dominated at the height of those games’ popularity. There was a massive pool of players and those names stood out year after year at the top of the heap.
And now that the majority of people have moved on from the scene back then guess who dominates still? Daigo, Valle, Choi, Justin…It has nothing to do with how many people are playing the game. It has to do with them routinely kicking ass and putting in the hours to get good. When the pool is low they are still top players.
And now that so many new players are coming in for SFIV…guess who we see destroying everyone else? Oh yeah Daigo, Valle, Choi, Justin…as usual.
No matter how popular or not SF was the same people are almost always the best at it because they play enough to be. Saying that they became the best at a game that ‘no one cared about’ is wrong because these guys dominated everyone at the height of many different games and now they are showing dominance once against with SFIV.
I agree wholeheartedly. Remember, ST is a fairly aged game when you consider its release. How can you make people interested in an older game? By providing a better learning curve and rebalancing the game. This makes the game easy to pickup, but as Virtua Fighter pointed out, the same people dominate the games, proving that even though a game may be easier to pickup for newbies, it doesn’t mean it can be mastered any easier, shown by the fact that the same people are at the top of the ladder. Easier inputs doesn’t mean you’ve learned timing, spacing, so on… but the easier inputs will make more players want to stick to the game, creating a bigger player base, and ultimately, bringing Street Fighter the attention it deserves.
if you didn’t know already I love ST. I’ve had lots of time to do that. I’m still giving HDR a chance, let it get out for at least a year before I label it as not good enough. If anything I think HDR brings more comp to games like ST, and ideally, will increase ST crowd. Now if HDR numbers start to detract from ST crowd… that could lead to R.I.P ST.
why don’t we have an arcade board or ggpo set up at evo to play arcade ST? We should have both games there.