He also said “this game is not worth my Ryu” lol. But it’s understandable he plays SF4 if all he wants is competition.
ST in Japan won’t die until arcades in Japan officially “die”. And I don’t see it happening since they have a healthy arcade scene, plus Japanese people love tradition.
ST is a godlike game to have in an arcade because the games are rather short and the gameplay is naturally addictive.
You should like what you like because of how you feel, not because of what others do. Valle and Daigo are champions and they can change their mind or play whatever the fuck they want. It doesn’t mean I’m gonna support or enjoy what they’re playing because of it, and the same should go for ST. If you like the game, play it. If you need “competition” and “ST is dead” to you, I can think of plenty of reasons for that… I just can’t think of any which need the affirmation of people like cammy-white, nor can I think of any reason why cammy-white would need our affirmation that his assertion is correct.
Stop playing Dungeons and Dragon Punches, especially when you live near fucking Super Arcade and can just ignore all this stupid crap and get fucking Shin Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo. Offline is like some hidden ass boss where you have to get all perfects in a game before you get to play it. If you like the new scene and online player and theory fighting and people trying to be famous. If THAT is what you want to play with, while folks try to make a living out of a game that has such an archaic business model about having fun and overcoming character differences, be my guest. It’s bigger, ST and other game communities both have their awkward hang ups… but it’s still being played in some capacity, so regardless of what that might mean, play it for your own reasons.
If people are still playing ST near you and you don’t have to put up with awkward personalities that are like that episode of Chowder where the power goes out and all the TryHards emerge from hiding, just play the game. It probably isn’t as popular or whatever, but you have people who give this game their all and genuinely just enjoy the game for what it is. It’s hard to find that in a lot of player bases these days. But you know what? Here’s some simple advice:
Don’t be a loser and try to seek affirmation or AFFIRM your belief that ST is alive out loud here. All of you should know how it is, so just play until it’s time to turn out the lights and move on.
c’mere sonny, let me show you how to play a real man’s game.
It’s a bad game, can’t be denied.
i would like to add a few things to this sf4/st argument. in ST the better player has a much higher chance of winning where as in SF4 you basically have a computer assist ultra. just think for a second how most players obtain and ultra? you give your opponent an ultra by beating their ass and by the time you take off roughly 50% of their life, OMG, they have an ultra. now you might argue that landing an ultra isnt all that easy etc, but if you are actually playing the game, ultras are pretty simple to land and their damage is high. sf4 was made to accommodate the newer gen of ADD kids with all the flash and ease of input. if you like games where you feel like you have a chance every round cause of a easy mode engine, they hey, sf4 is the right game for you. if you like a game that looks competitive because you only lost by a little bit instead of getting completely assraped, then sf4 is for you. if you think a game that gives the person with less skill a higher chance of coming back or even winning, sf4 is for you. i know these points wont get across to many of you, and i dont expect them to. what im trying to say here is, in ST, if the skill gap is close, then games will be close. in sf4, if the skill gap is high, the game can still be won by the lesser player. plain and simple, sf4 appeals to the masses and as strictly a business move, it was an excellent one. for the hardcore gamer… not so much.
sf4 blew up the fgc and rightfully so since it has been forever since there was this much hype for a game release. it was something really fresh and flashy. the main problem is, with all the support and success of the game, capcom now feels that they did the right thing and hit the nail on the head. they sold millions of copies of this game and think its the greatest thing since sliced bread. well, reality check for us hardcore dedicated fans. we either deal with the game and use competition as a drive to play it, or we can just sit back and watch the game evolve and be left behind. kind of a shitty deal if you have supported the scene forever but it is what it is.
im ranting on and on, but i will say this. in terms of skilled games, HF > ST > SF4 imo. if you want to keep arguing so be it, and this is just my personal opinion. carry on gentlemen.
Just because you don’t like my opinion doesn’t make it trolling. You aren’t doing anything constructive either.
Yes, Hyper Fighting you had to earn every pixel of life you get. In ST once someone gets super the whole complexity of the round can change, but you still have to earn the super and land it. In SF4 you don’t earn your Ultra you just get it for sucking and can luck into landing it. But, I guess as games evolve (or devolve) flash = cash. Watching/playing SF4 doesn’t get my heart racing at all, infact it puts me to sleep. ST even after almost 20 years still nearly gives me a heart attack when its close.
I feel like the ultra mechanic complaint is a little overblown. Yes, it might make for closer games (50% to 0% as opposed to 100% to 0%), but if you’re the worse player and you landed one on your opponent, you probably just filled his ultra meter and screwed yourself.
I’ve tried playing IV, and I’m pretty terrible at it (C rank). A better IV player almost always beats me. People say the game is newb friendly, but I really feel that it is the opposite. ST is the newb friendly game, and SFIV is not, even though it is harder for a newb to keep it close in ST. IV has so much stuff going on that makes it hard for me to adjust from ST: focus attack, armor break, dash, FADC, EX, throw tech, damage scaled link combos for bnb, many many possible matchups with few opportunities to experience them all, etc. This is the case for me actually with many fighting games, like MvC2 and VS and 3s. ST I can concentrate on working on my skills rather than worrying about a seemingly infinite amount of scenario specific cases:
Throw SB, but don’t if they have EX meter, but do if you both have EX boom meter, but don’t because they’ll jump in at this point, but they won’t because you have meter for EX flash, so do a safe poke, but look out for focus attack, so throw them instead fuck it i don’t even care anymore
More than anything, what hurts me the most is that I can’t zone for shit. As an ST Guile player, EX and focus attack screw up my ground game, and the crazy jump arcs and shitty AA hitboxes make jump-ins practically free. Someone mentioned that the fundamentals for this game are simply different and I agree. OS, mixup vortex, and link combos are the fundamentals now, rather than spacing and footsies. Keeping your opponent guessing and reading/adjusting to your opponent seem huge. You can call it randomness, but some people really are better at this than others, and I’m not one of them.
But what really keeps me from taking this game seriously, from wanting to learn it at a competitive level, is how slow it is. It’s just awful. The animations, the clock, the amount of time it takes to finish a match, it’s just all makes for such a slow, arduous experience. I have no idea why they did this either, they could take more money at arcades with quicker matches.
Random dp on there jump in can lead into super lool.
The subsystems, Focus/Ultra/how Frames are, just contribute to a game where I feel the basics take a backseat to flashy crap. I think there’s clearly skill involved, but it’s definitely not anything I’d say resembles Street Fighter beyond a superficial level. I get that the game is advertised to be “more like SF2”, it isn’t beyond the cosmetic. Street Fighter 4’s whole meta game stinks of compromises/afterimages of Street Fighter 3. From the option selects to the way you score damage to the way consequences play out.
Focus Attacks compromise footsies, projectiles… there are ways around it but what does it truly add that wasn’t already there? The large cast makes things feel homogeneous… I think the argument that “It’s just like the old games” is stupid. I wish it wasn’t like the old games, so it wasn’t giving the impression that it isn’t some bastardization of a simple, but amazingly complex game. By comparison, I don’t think new games are really all that complex. There are many players that seriously think they can watch a match of Street Fighter 2 and then know everything about it… which says everything to me about people who want all this easy crap in the first place:
“What isn’t earned isn’t appreciated.”
Simple as that. I don’t think reversals or dragon punches should be easier, because all of those things mean DIFFERENT THINGS in the many situations they arise in. SF4, without a doubt, takes skill, but I’d never call it Street Fighter. Similar isn’t same, for better or worse. At least be different in an interesting way, that’s what I think.
Hey, you’ve stated your opinion. You’re completely entitled to it, we’ve made our response. Now you can agree with it or not. Either way, you haven’t added anything new to any of your responses from people saying the game isn’t dead, all you’ve done is essentially basically repeat the same crap in every post.
I made my intentions clear from the first post I made on this thread. I want to prevent ST’s image / perception by people from degrading more than it has. That’s why my posts have been repetitive. I’ve given my opinion on why this game isn’t as dead as you think it is, and I haven’t driven that point further. You’re still free to disagree, maybe eventually someone will make a post that will change your mind, maybe not. I don’t really give a damn. If you say you love this game as much as you do, I think it’s in your best interest to preserve the image of the game as much as you can as well. Tell me, how is repeating on a thread the game is dead helping to keep the community alive (if not revive it) ?
So I have specific reasons/goals for every post I’ve made. I haven’t beaten anything that’s already long dead. Can you say the same?
Me not doing anything constructive? Have you SEEN the post in my signature?
The ST community in Toronto has been dead since 2009ish. I spent $300 on an ST board, $200 on a supergun (which had to be slightly rewired to work with ST), $100 on converters/mods to sticks so we have something to play with. And I brought all these things down to casuals, without a car mind you, to try and revive ST, in Toronto, with no guarantee that it would have any affect. Luckily, it did seem to spark a good amount of interest, and gotten quite a few players to enjoy the game who’ve never played before. If you don’t call that constructive, I don’t know what is.
I don’t know, about you. and what you’ve done, but I’ve held my tongue about telling people to DO something to get ST back on track during the entire time I’ve been saving up and getting ready to take action for the community. Because the things I had done weren’t groundbreaking.
Now I can and I made sure I can back myself up and not be a hypocrite when I tell people to do something. I’m not asking for anything huge or groundbreaking. I’m asking you for simple things, like showing up to casuals and supporting the community. But that’s not even the reason I’m making this post. fine, don’t go to casuals, or whatever, I’d prefer you do but at the very least don’t do anything destructive / negative.
Now I’ve been pointing people who are starting ST in Toronto to the ST forums. Them seeing R.I.P ST as the top post on the forum isn’t exactly making my life any easier. I even prefer watson’s over yours, yes, he essentially said the game is dead but he told everyone why he loves this game so damn much. And that’s what you should be trying to do. Give people a reason to play this game. not a reason for them to leave/not get started.
cammy-white aka CigarGirl aka GFBTV aka Makoto girl aka The Utility Girl will keep spitting venom non stop, congrats on doing a ST revival in ur area, lucky for those who can play in ur supergun, keep it up n dont let the hater win 
This.
I started with TvC only a year ago, which is how I officially got into the FGC. Before that, I played ST on an SNES when I was a kid, and I played Melee when I was in high school with friends. I honestly think that ST is way easier to learn than 4. Yes, the game is more complex, but anyone can just jump in and play it without the mechanics seeming daunting! In my local scene, one the guys here invited me to come play ST on an old CRT during a fight night. Up until that point, I was only really playing SF4, and I was hating it. But anyhow, he showed me some of the basics, explained that execution was going to seem harder, and then I was off to the races. The first thing I noticed was that even though I was getting raped, I wasn’t even mad about it. He was winning fair and square, in my eyes. When he had super and blasted me with it, I deserved it. When I got too close and he grabbed me, I deserved it. Everything was so fast, so exciting. I was hooked.
What lured me in was it’s beautiful simplicity. It reminds me of chess. In my opinion, SF4 has so many different things going on in it, that the learning curve is actually steeper in the beginning, and slacks up near the end. ST starts out incredibly easy to learn (learned the basics in 30 min.) but has a progressively climbing learning curve. But that doesn’t even matter right, because you’re already hooked by then?
Point is, I don’t think it’s really a question of which game is better (ST is clearly a better game, design wise – it resembles chess for god sakes). It’s just a matter of whether you want a bajillion people to play against on the daily, or a group of 30 or so dedicated players that you hardly ever get to see? Fuck it, I’m going with the latter. The way I see it, is that if SF2 is the game that will teach you all of your fundamentals, why not enjoy it while you can and then come back later and dominate in the newer games (assuming they don’t throw out fundamentals completely, haha)?
Give ST A bad image? No saying what I said doesn’t give it a bad image your attitude does however, If you want to grow, grow as one not be an asshole to anyone who questions an idea different from yours. You don’t know about me to be saying anything bad about me in the first place ‘‘I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU’’ says it all. I bleed ST but I face facts when they’re infront of me would I love to see ST come back? Sure do I see it happening in the numbers we had before no I don’t. Take it however you want I’m not gonna sit here and preach to you. Destructive/Negative? I’m not even gonna comment on that because it makes absolutely no sense to what I’ve said here. If the Toronto players have a brain they can see the post date when this thread was started and when it was necro by shirts. If they have a brain they can also make there own opinion about ST if my comment influences them they’re brain dead zombies and if the title does they’re brain dead zombies who wouldn’t enjoy ST in the first place because they can’t even make there own opinion of it. As for the casual/tournament thing, Kid if you know who I am you would know I’ve been going to casuals since before you were born. You’re 23, I’m 34 put the math together in how long I’ve been playing ST and let that sink in a while before you reply to me. Do I still go out and do all that no, I play from the comfort of my home when I get off work here and there don’t have time for it. Do I support the ST Revival? Sure I do, I’ve helped by designing T-Shirts for DontBlowThis, I’ve done all kinds of things.
So you need to put your e-penis back in your pants and grow up. You don’t get players to play by acting like a baby.
As for thebastard, You troll to no end don’t you? Even after your alternative account’s got banned for spamming the board up? You just never learn. I don’t even know what you mean by that but I’m sure you’re phishing for some response so Instead I’ll use the report button.
I hope you can grow up soon too.
Paragraphs, use them. That’s one hell of a wall o’ text.
I agree
pornographs > pragraphs lo0l
beans, i wish i could “like” that more than once.
what i think is funny is sf4 players claiming that it takes more “execution” to play sf4 because of all the one-frame link combos. “execution” involves a lot more than combos, one-frame linked or otherwise. sure cammy’s combos in ST are “easier” to do, but can you land them? it’s not about taking over half of someone’s life by doing a 3-hit combo, it’s about getting close enough to bait a move to land it. one of the most fundamental aspects of older SF games that is most overlooked is jumping straight up over projectiles to advance. it takes “execution” to advance on a fireballer with this technique and something after 20 years i still need to work on.
as for one-frame links, there’s more to them than just combos. you can actually whiff a move and followup with another move immediately after the recovery frames of the whiffed move are finished. dhalsim is prime example of this with his normals. you can whiff one of his elongated standing moves to bait a jump in and then immediately punish with a different move. but, if your followup is to early, the move will not register, you get knocked down and you lose the round. if your followup is too late, you get knocked down and you lose the round. against characters like hawk, fei long, zangief, and bison you don’t want to miss-time any whiffs because it would take a mistake from your opponent for you to get back up after getting knocked down. to define this as a true one-frame link or not is up to whomever. the fact remains that good players are able to control their moves so that if a move connects, is blocked, or is whiffed, they are able to time their next move to begin on the exact frame of which the last recovery frame of the first move is finished.
sf4 has ex moves and fadc to get around a lot of what involves “execution” in ST. sf4 zangief is a perfect example of this. he’s no longer low-tier because his ex banishing hand AND fadc allows two answers to projectiles that he didn’t have before. i could go on, but it would be pointless in this section of the forums.
for anyone who wants to argue that you’re talking about one-frame links in a 60 fps game, i would like to add that your 60 fps game also has a 7-frame reversal window. my 1 frame reversal window would be 2 frames in your game and my game is a lot faster and allows for no mistakes. if anyone wants to really understand what “execution” is about, they should check out a muteki guile vs a kurahashi guile ST vid on youtube. you won’t see many combos if any at all, but you’d be a total scrub if you didn’t see “execution” at its highest level.
I guess that makes HF the go of fighting games?