Neither does N.Dhalsim. If you’re going to migrate here from the HDR section to talk about ST then you should definitely get familiar with the differences between the two games.
N.Dhalsim’s Super cannot be used as a reversal because of a programming bug. Ken and Sagat share the same bug as well. Those character’s Super attacks will not come out on the first frame after any type of recovery (wake up, stun, air). http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Strategy
Scroll down to the ‘Reversing Tick Throws’ section to see that Dhalsim’s only option to beat tick throws is a yoga teleport (or a counter throw but only if he’s in range and even then it’s 50/50).
This is why ST is so hardcore and all or nothing. If Dhalsim can zone the throw heavy characters and keep them at full or mid screen rage he can command the match rather easily. But if Dhalsim gets cornered and knocked down he’s incredibly vulnerable to throw loops.
In the first clip you see Jodim knock Gian down with a running grab. He then does a meaty standing strong (outside of Dhalsim’s throw range) and then an SPD (also outside of Dhalsim’s throw range). Gian has a full Super meter, but it won’t come out on the first frame, meaning meaty attacks and perfect command throws will beat a Super attempt because they’ll occur one frame earlier.
In the second clip Shogatsu (O.Honda) finally gets in on Hakase and doesn’t give him a chance to breathe. O.Honda doesn’t have a command throw, so any throw attempt overlaps with a normal, and can be stuffed with invincible attacks. Dhalsim’s Super however can’t be used as a reversal. So Shogatsu does a frame tight fierce hold without having to worry about eating a huge reversal Super.
You’ll often see Dhalsim players use the Super to chip opponents or keep opponents from closing the distance. Unlike Dictator, who can use his Super as a reversal to escape the corner, or a throw trap, Dhalsim cannot use his Super that way. His game against throw centric characters involves a heavy emphasis on pure zoning and never letting the opponent in.
I didn’t say “reversal” Super, I said “invincible on startup” Super. Big difference, if you knew how to read.
And even if N.Dhalsim cannot use it as a reversal on the first frame, it can still come out on the 2nd frame after knockdown/blockstun. So if the tick 360 was not perfectly airtight (which they often aren’t), N.Dhalsim can still escape using his Super. That’s a *much *better option than O.Dhalsim’s options, which are absolutely nothing, outside of reversal throws, which are easily beat by well spaced SPDs and Typhoons. Reversal Teleport? Might as well give your opponent a free win.
And technically you’re wrong, N.Dhalsim *does *have a reversal Super in ST. Using the dipswitches in the DC and HDR ports, you can turn off those bugs for Ken and Sagat as well.
And you say O.Dhalsim is vulnerable in the corner? No, no. N.Dhalsim is vulnerable, Dictator is vulnerable…O.Dhalsim is screwed like fresh meat in a prison.
Elitists like VFF refuse to acknowledge that those super reversal bugs are indeed bugs and thinks they should stay in the game (“because that’s how it was in arcade ST”).
Ugh, fuck the super. N.Sim and O.Sim both have a reversal teleport to try to get out tight spots. O.Sim not having a super doesn’t help make him better, whether or not it works as a reversal. So my question still stands, does O.Sim have anything superior to N.Sim?
guys, i don’t actually like n.sim controllable limbs! because you may misuse that…
i think o.sim have a better jab yoga fire to noogie or throw tick for example. because n.sim may somtimes misuse his far standing strong or fierce if he want to throw…
Ok, so it’s not the Drills, since O.Dhalsim can control them same as N.Dhalsim. I guess it’s just the controllable limbs, teching throws and Super. Is that it? Is it his hitboxes? His throw range? His footspeed that is different? Cuz if that’s it, then N.Dhalsim is definitely better IMO.
I believe the only “advantage” would be that it is both a more simple and balanced character. Unless the person chooses him because of liking the original color, I suppose a good N.Dhalsim player would never pick the super version but by being somehow forced to do so.
HDR’s classic mode is pulled from the Dreamcast version of the game, I believe. The differences from Arcade ST to DC ST are, according to the ST Wiki:
"Dreamcast
The size of the screen is slightly off (it’s a little too narrow), making the character sizes appear to be slightly too thin. There is no evidence to show that this affects gameplay in any way.
The Dreamcast version occasionally suffers from 1 frame of input lag (possibly more if you’re using a PSX->DC controller converter), though this is undetectable by most players.
During “Round 1/2/3, FIGHT!”, the game suffers from noticeable slowdown, regardless of the speed setting. In the arcade version, if you start counting from the moment the background becomes visible until the moment your can control your characters, the elapsed time is almost exactly two seconds. In the Dreamcast version, it’s almost exactly 3 seconds. This means you must slightly alter the timing of your opening attack.
In the arcade version, O.Chun can not control the strength of her reversal fireball. (The game “stores” the strength that you previously did.) This was corrected in the Dreamcast version. Strangely, T.Hawk and O.Dictator suffer from similar problems with reversal uppercut and reversal Devil’s Reverse, respectively. There is a DIP switch to correct O.Dictator’s, but T.Hawk’s remains in tact.
By default, there are a few other slight gameplay differences as well (such as Dhalsim/Ken/Sagat being able to reversal super), but aside from the above mentioned reversal glitches for Chun and Hawk, all of the tested and known differences can be corrected using the in-game DIP switches."
That bug is beneficial to the game, Sim is powerful enough as he is in OG ST, giving him a powerful reversal when getting near a good Sim is already hard enough would be too much.
its a matter of preference between auto limbs and controllable limbs. auto limbs definitely help when going for the mp/noogie tick throw option select since either his close mp will come out or the throw. if you try that with new sim, you’ll most likely get his far mp to come out which will whiff at close range. i think nki’s st thread goes more in depth of old sim.
one other minor advantage old sim has is that his far mk is bufferable.
Thanks for the reply. I had a funny feeling it was about the upswing MP throw loop thing. Still, I think that given time you’d find N.Sim superior in almost every other way…FWIW.
No shit? Ha! You really do learn something every day. I had no idea about that. Not sure where you’d use it, but it does sound cool :wgrin:
theres no doubt that new sim is 100x better than old sim. however, old sim is not too bad either. omni mentions that his far mp is also bufferable, but i dont remember it being bufferable.
i like old sim for the fact that hes a simplified version of new sim. still though, when compared with other characters, theres nothing simple about dhalsim. st is a very fast game already and i can’t keep up with memorizing every intricacies of new sim. thats why i like old sim.
what if you want to get them to the corner? or if you’re not in range for the throw?
If you want to put someone in the corner then fierce throw instead of noogie. If you’re not in throw range you’ll still hit them with back strong, if you’re too far away for back strong to hit then you really aren’t trying to throw them
