"Put down the Flowchart, Scrub!" Ken Video Thread

Sad isnt it?

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second match is sagat vs. ken (me)

i get worked pretty hard though, i’m up for some advice/criticism.

Hey dude
Just from watching that vid , you didnt throw one DP …
Throwing DP’s dont make you a scrub if you use them wisely especially if your hit confirming them from your jabs and shorts for the knockdown .

also you did only 1 cross up …
There were times you hit him with your crouching jap and could have F.Dp’d him to get the knock down and cross him up with j.Short kick to start your cross up and mix up game .
Against sagat Ive found I have to stay on him all the time , go cross up crazy .

You probably know all of this anyway , just my observations .

I main ken but havent ever posted in the ken forum , thought I better take part a bit more .
Hope thats usefull dude :slight_smile:

You step kicked a bit too much especially at close range. Step kick is fast but it will get beat by lp/sk and many mp/fk at startup. Best used at medium to max range of the kick. Try Kara throwing at close range instead of step kicking.

The other big problem, if not the bigger one, is just you missed your combos (execution issues). It seem your DP or Tatsu never came out.

My scrubby Ken. These are a few weeks old, and Ive changed a lot since these were recorded, just by watching these over and over, and tryna break some bad habits.

Ryu Vs Ken(me); dude pulls a nice lp.dp cancel looked random tho, I get upset & rush him down, lol

Balrog Vs Me; was just learning the tatsu combos and I miss a link, so it whiffs, lol

U can give some advice its always welcome, but as stated above some of these bad habits have been toned down a lot a little since then. Experience will help and Ive been in the training room working on my execution like a mad man.

Im gonna record some more soon, and I want to see if there is really a change. I been tryna play ppl offline alot more, b/c playing as much online can mess up ur timing A LOT. When I played in a casual setting with about 10 ppl, it took me a few matches to find a rhythm and get the timing back on combos.

first things first. you gotta go to training mode and get your execution down. you missed about 3 or 4 combos.

yeah, first tourney nerves raped me in davis. soon as i got home i was hitting training mode.

a couple of those close step kicks are me fucking up my kara-throw input.

this dp comment is 100% real talk, and it’s a very bad habbit i need to break sooner rather than later, idk if it was online play but i built a stigma in my head that srk uncombo’d = scrub and it’s a habbit that is not to my benefit.

anyways thanks all for the tips, hopefully i’ll give ken a better showing next time out.

I know what you mean on those tournament nerves… Hell, I get that in CE mode… When I know there’s nothing to gain or lose (player matches, hanging with friends), I play like a freaking super hero. When I play CE mode, I miss my c.jab, c.jab, Shoryu combo… And I can’t tell you how many times I accidentally step kicked when going for the Kara Throw. You’ve probably seen a few in the matches we played against each other.

Work on your execution, and you’ll be good to go. I know you can grind a game… You have the NGII Master Ninja gamer pic. If you can get that down, you can get anything. :stuck_out_tongue:

Good watch. Also - don’t forget to post vids of you losing too. Trying to look for holes in your game when you are winning are hard to do.
But… I did make note of one concern…
You mix up nicely. However… when you do get your aggression rolling- there are holes to be countered. The more attacks you throw out… the more chances the opponent has of doing a deadly counter.
Although I do agree with rolling with momentum if it sways in your favor… just be careful and make sure you pick out the high level players quickly in a match. Because they will make you pay for any mis-timings in your strings.
Hell - even a DP masher could get a few punishers in.

The match against Ryu was played very well initially. You weren’t zealous and played safe. Didn’t push for an advantage… but waited patiently for one to appear.
His DP.lp was a valid counter against your cr.mk. Most people know by now that they are at +1f adv. after blocking f+mk from Ken. In regards to the follow-up SUPER… yeah - accidental… but that validates spamming to counter you cr.mk even more valid. That’s WHY I RARELY follow up a f+mk against Gief. I’ve been SPD a few times from him grabbing the extent of my toes from cr.mk.
Also - that is why high level players are now consistently countering “cr.mk xxFB”. Even on hit with cr.mk… at certain distances they can still punish before the FB gets them due to invincibility on their specials or ULTRAS.

If you haven’t already. Work on cross-unders. It’s a small and easy learning curve but extremely high effectiveness. I got a few free combo’s tonight with using cross-unders.

^^ thanks for the feed back. Yea, I do cross-unders they look sweet and set up some nasty mind games. Yea, I will def post up some of me loosing, lol. And good eye on “throwing out a lot of attacks”. You have to be patient with Ryu, his damage output is deceptive a hell, especially on Ken it seems. And I will make a mental note of not abusing cr.mk

Thanks for posting. Not only do you learn from our observations… we also learn from your beatdowns :slight_smile: win win :slight_smile:

Obviously, execution and punishment from openings was… lacking. Don’t need us discuss that.

First of all. Let me validate what you did right. Even though you got a beat down - you played very well strategically from a match-up pov.

  1. You took the right approach. You kept within striking range of your f+mk. This the right thing to do.
  2. You repeatedly kept pressure on him and you MADE HIM MAKE MANY MISTAKES. eg. He jumped in on you unwisely (you missed those A/A punishers), he opened himself up with defensive random kicks (you went into a lot of them), and he charged up FA to counter you f+mk (you just didn’t execute your punishers).
    **
    Let’s start with… critiquing f+mk**
    There were many times you used them beautifully. You kept him pressured and pinned down- and he made many mistakes. But there were times you used them unwisely - when too close within range (cr.mk range).
    My answer?
    >First of all… f+mk is a drug. Great at first… but once you get addicted and start abusing it… you end up paying the price in the end. So use it wisely.
    Countering counters
    This section is about recognizing what you are doing right… and then recognizing what the opponent will do to counter. Here is what Sagat started doing:
    1. Random defensive kicks
    > They pack a punch. But are close combat only. You ran into them a few times. RECOGNIZE this tactic by Sagat when he is pinned and then counter with FB’s. That’s right… how many FB’s did you throw at him that game? Go back and count!
    2. Jump ins
    > A Sagat on the back-foot will try to turn things around. Go on the offensive - Tiger Knee’s and Jump-ins. Be aware!
    3. FA’s
    > You messed him up so badly with zoning him with your f+mk that he started trying to predict, WRONGLY, and counter with FA. You did the right thing to be playing cautious. Just be careful of jumping for a punish. A cross-up is fine… but if you do a frontal attack - his FA can still punish. TATSU is another option - armor break. Jumping is fine… just be careful and don’t abuse it.

Let’s move on to air.EX and nit-picking
Used twice… the first time- It seems you went for an assault… you missed WILDLY. 2nd time was to get out of a corner and possibly also attack.
> So the first one missed wildly. Doesn’t bother me. What does bother me is your use of air.EX the 2nd time. You were in a corner - meaning that opponents look for jumps. People have a tendency to jump when placed in a corner. So careful of what being in a corner does to you.

Obviously Sagat is a hard match. Just get some more practice infront of peers and the jitters will disappear. Execution is a mix of nerves and practice - which is cured through experience.
The Ken’s around here are leveling up. Makes me proud to be referred to as, “that guy that uses Ken”.

thanks for the critique, i’m going to work on what everyone has been telling me. i’m hoping for a better showing at fuddruckers at the end of the month ^^. oh and hopefully they will upload some more of the matches from that tourney atm they only have half of the winners finals, the losers finals and the grand finals. i know i had at least 1 if not 2 more matches recorded and there was another person there using ken on the setup that was recording so prolly some from him as well.

and as for posting losses/playing losses. basara and i talked about this when i was first coming around here, and pretty much after my first month of the game (no real fighting games for a long time) i started to enjoy my losses just as much as my wins because i’m learning more from them.

that game on master ninja gives me so many bad memories lol, like really it just reaches the point in so many places where it’s not even fun -_-; i still go back and play mentor difficulty though, still pretty hardcore but not quite as cheesy. anyways i’m hoping to have my fingers timing down to what my thumbs are at soon, soooo many years of console gaming, and not console fighters. ng2 is sooo good at working on timing counters though as they have a very short window in that game and that window is shared with the defensive options when counters aren’t possible, and wiffing a counter attempt gets you destroyed on harder difficulty’s that games ai is just too evil.

Ok ok ok i want some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Ok I will admit i was the FIRST one to go on the Huge projector so i was a little choked haha but thats my problem not yours :slight_smile: but please give me some tips on what i could have done. i mean i see some mistakes i’ve already done but i would like some good counter tips :slight_smile:

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I know i threw a ton of random shoryus but its only cuz i really thought they would hit hahaha

  1. Follow up those poke strings with DP
  2. Don’t throw a Hado when moving backwards vs a moving forward Gief. You are asking for a Green Hand in the face.
  3. Jumps don’t really work with Gief unless setup very carefully. It can be easily defended with a Lariat.
  4. Tatsu don’t work with Gief. You are asking for SPD and 720s. Air Tatsu on the other hand can be used rather effectively to zone and space him out.
  5. Don’t get cornered. Air Tatsu is your BFF.
  6. Pay attention when he does his cross ups. On double jump cross up he can be KD’d with j.DP. You can also jump out and reset but pick the proper side.

On single jump Lariat, defend. Or DP if he does it too early.

  1. Zone better (long distance Hado), pokes at max range Step Kicks (don’t get predictable - mix up your follow up).

tatsu’s can still be used on zangief, you just have to hit confirm into them and finish with ex or mk tatsu this places you at frame advantage when ending the combo, that being said to a gief it will look like a nice… juicy… free… ULTRA!!! they like almost cant resist to try it, so just hold up during your tatsu and you will jump right up above their whiffed ultra to punish with… ANOTHER tatsu combo leaving you in the same frame advantage, and if they try to lariat on your way down just j.mp knocks him out for some more tatsu combo’s. it’s risky but it can pay off bigtime.

just stay off that lk and hk tatsu.

Ken (me) vs. Sagat match

This an older video of me playing against a Sagat who didn’t really seem to know what he was doing. Some constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated.

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Throw/Kara Throw more.
That is probably the major one.

Nitpick - fp + SRK combo in 2nd round - I would have rather do a c.mk + tatsu combo. You would have done more damage and pin him in the corner.

Nekojita (Ken)

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Not a bad Ken player, I like his ideas.

Vid update. Finals match between me and J.R. Rodriguez. Pretty decent game… [media=youtube]XIFrkJjJL1g[/media]

Oh jesus that Ultra hit from that far. :amazed: