bro you assume gun ownership is rampant in the US. that everybody owns a fucking gun.
You know about that 300+ million figure assholes like pierce morgan keep citing? well, on average the average gun bearing American owns multiple firearms. You also forget that it’s mostly right winged ass hats that own firarms, and they love the police because it protects them from “dirty blacks”.
And yes, collecting firearms is nice provided you have the $$$. Each have their own unique firing characteristics which make them all unique to shoot.
edit: secondly, the American people are not going to start shooting government agencies until they are backed into a deep corner. even then, psychology predicts that people would take it assuming things can’t get worse. Aside from being conditioned to fear shooting police, we are also conditioned to judge and automatically dismiss any individual that fights the police no matter how justified. So fighting police isn’t an option, we are conditioned to resist and fear authority from childhood.
There are people who literally believe it’s OK that police kill people because it’s the individuals fault he didn’t waive his rights and comply with law enforcement. This gun tooting culture isn’t as rampant as people make it to believe, and all this talk about revolution and freedom is jive talk from fools. Americans do not have the heart nor will to initiate combat against the government, both in the courts or by forceful means.
Also, you guys need to stop talking about revolution, nothing is gonna happen. If you don’t do it through the system the masses already dismiss you heavily as invalid and cowardly. Look at how the American public reacted to Snowden. There’s no way he could have gotten anything done if he did it through the courts.
That’s how this shit works. What, did you think, groups of people would go to Ferguson to hold hands, and hope the government just changes shit for the better?
Check in your pants to make sure your dick is still there
Why would they actually get out of their office/house/room with a computer in it when they could just change their facebook profile picture? That’ll show the government.
European whites were not an unanimous group either. Southern Europeans like Italians, Greeks, Spanish but also Irish and Jews were treated as second class citizens in the early 19th century. There were shops forbidding entrance to them too and they were blamed for all the crime.
Regarding relations between African Americans and African countries, Ghana’s independence from Britain in 1957, succeeded thanks to African Americans with roots from Ghana. Ghana’s independence also influenced the Civil Rights Movement in the USA too.
*Also present was then-Vice President Richard Nixon. A rather telling story has been written numerous times of how Nixon approached a group of black people whom he assumed to be Ghanaians and asked, “How does it feel to be free?”
“We wouldn’t know,” they responded. “We’re from Alabama.” Their response only emphasized a remark made to the vice president by Dr. King at a reception that was held two days prior to independence. It was the first time the two had ever met. “I want you to come visit us down in Alabama,” King said, “where we are seeking the same kind of freedom the Gold Coast is celebrating.”
*
You wrote all that to justify what you immediately suspected when I didn’t tow the line that Brown had to have been shot with no reason? That’s the problem with this whole thing, racism is the immediate conclusion in any such event, and anyone who suggests otherwise is labeled a racist. Yes, this is a generalization, as is the case anytime we speak about more than one person, but if you think it’s an “over-generalization” you’re deliberately fooling yourself, as even reading this thread offers plenty of proof of what I’m bitching about.
Want some other typical reasons to call me racist? I’m a libertarian of the minarchist sort, I regularly strongly disagree with Obama and liberal economic policies in general, I own guns, I have a concealed handgun license, I an am NRA member, I believe in calling a spade a spade, and I detest Marxism (which, for the record, is what the communist riot agitators and one of the contributors to this thread is preaching). So you can call me a racist all you want- I’ve heard it plenty of times before from the PC police and multiple liberals who can’t actually counter me in a debate. None of it changes what I really believe, which is that your decisions make you who you are, not your ethnicity, and by extension your ethnicity does not provide a pass for behavior for that is unacceptable for anyone else. Since you were combing through everything I’ve said here looking for proof of racism, surely you noticed the book I kept bringing up (Life at the Bottom), wherein I pointed out that most of the problems we associate with “black America” (I use quotation marks because such a group label is a generalization that is obviously not applicable to all black Americans) are happening in British “hoods” as well?
Do you honestly believe that many of the people screaming racism from the get go, screaming racism at anyone who thinks there was more to the story than the cop blowing away Brown entirely for being black (which you’ve basically admitted was your first impulse towards me) in a town that’s mostly black, screaming racism at every bit of press released that doesn’t fit the story they want, are guaranteed to scream racism if anything less than being drawn and quartered happens to the cop, and in some cases even screaming racism at people saying destruction and looting are wrong have spent much time looking inward for solutions to their own problems? Because it sure as shit looks to me like “the community” (again, quotation marks because this is a generalization) rises up with such passion only when something can be seen as reinforcing the notion of racial oppression. Anyone suggesting that welfare, the romanticization of “thug life” by the entertainment industry (coupled with the belief that society has already victimized you), counter productive feel good economic policies, the destruction of the black family, and the notion that blacks should be held to lower standards cause more problems than actual racial oppression today is labeled a racist or at least a denier of racism, and if they’re black, they’re usually called an Uncle Tom, an Oreo or at least a fool. The sacred cow of sinister Klansmen hiding behind every bush, looking to hold black Americans down, has probably done more damage to modern “black America” than anything else at this point, as most people growing up being told that they’re victims will always believe they are, will see most things as proof of it, will be quick to follow anyone who reinforces the belief (i.e. democrats in America), and will almost always be held back by the thumb they imagine holding them down. As with any problem in life, the more you well on it, the bigger it seems, and the more it dictates your decisions. This is not to say that racial discrimination doesn’t exist, my point is that has been made into something larger than it actually is by the extreme focus on it.
What do you think the results of Ferguson will be? What shape do you think the town will be in when the smoke clears, and how long will it be wrecked? What good came of taking to the streets immediately with cries that demanded “justice” before anyone was even sure what legitimate justice was in this case? Will all this have any effect beyond degrading American race relations further, raising another generation to see themselves as victimized from a young age, and reinforcing the suspicion that “black America” is irrational and violent in the minds of people who already believe it?
If you want to effectively fight legitimate racism and improve the the community, fight negative stereotypes by proving them wrong. Drop the victim attitude, be the best person you can be, work hard and be responsible, and shame/shun those around you who embrace and perpetuate those stereotypes. Stop supporting entertainers and media moguls that profit from selling those stereotypes, and turn some of that rage you’re throwing at me in their direction. Stop supporting professional race hustlers and race hustling politicians, and try listening to the voices immediately blocked out as racist/Uncle Tom without that preconception hanging overhead. If you believe in the bulk of your last paragraph, I would hope that most of this already applies to you, yet you still toss out the “racist” card without pause, so I’m skeptical. Yes, there are plenty of black Americans looking to improve their communities from within, and even more who are breaking racism’s back by simply turning their backs on stereotypes, disproving the bullshit of what blacks are “supposed to act like”, and beating/disciplining their kids when they feel the sway of that crap- I feel pretty safe in assuming that few, if any of these people are protesting or hurling charges of racism over the internet, much less calling for revolution and race wars as some of the empty cans online are.
As for police discrimination, the general use of excessive force, and general disrespect of the rights of citizens, I keep saying cops should be wearing cameras while on duty. Bad cops will be clearly exposed, and those lying about police actions as a defense will also be exposed. It seems like a pretty common sense solution that the Ferguson train wreck (both the initial incident and the aftermath) makes an excellent national case for. Since the focus is on race and the law, I would also make the case that this would be a good opportunity to really push hard for an end to the war on drugs, as it too has been a trainwreck for America, and is a huge contributor to the whole problem of crime and punishment in black communities. You can say whatever you want about me, you can conclude whatever you want about the state of racism in America today, but regardless, those two things are likely the only legislative ideas that would do any good on the topic at this point. I would carry on about how the nation’s law enforcement and legislators should be bound by the constitution from the sort of excess that has gone on here, but unfortunately, that document has long since been an afterthought for the government.
Racism, was the start of this conflict. What people are failing to see and WHY it should matter to EVERYONE who is living in the United States is that this opened up a full can of worms for other pressing matters that SHOULD be addressed. Regardless of Michael Brown’s character or gang affiliation (or lack there of), this is a tragedy not only for the child and his family, but for us on a much more grand scale. For example, the laws protecting cops for cases such as these. They are so heavily slanted in a way that it’s damn near impossible to get any real justice against crooked cops. The fact that they walk into the courthouse with +1 credibility on anything is ridiculous as it is. The hardest part of it all is even getting them to a courthouse to begin with. Indictment rates for officers is exceptionally low to start.
Not only that, the time in which they can use deadly force is too subjective and open to how the officer “feels” at the time. To make matters worse, we have to tossle with the idea that our government is arming these police forces across america (some kind of staggering number lik 90% of police departments have military grade weapons/vehicles). The fact that the police department can’t be trusted from the start is what makes this so more juicy. An example of what would happen to a town with a department of crooked officials; which is also intensified by the level of overall transparency when this matter was first brought up.
Bottom line, we gotta step up and lower these cops’ immunities to the very laws they are supposed to uphold. Set more defined do’s and do nots for these guys, and setup more surveillance (dash/shoulder cams). While this case opened with the hinge on racism, in actuality these cops have expressed that they don’t give a damn what you are, you are getting your rights violated. And it’s not with whistles and batons. They have microwave arrays, tear gas, and full on military grade vehicles a la gov’t. We also got to look at our government and regulate that ass too. Can’t have them just handing their toys out to these guys and telling em to go play. People don’t see it, but we are being pushed into a very scary future on some big brother type shit.
While I’m skeptical, or at least not sure, that this was truly an incident of racism, I agree completely with the rest of this. Cops have far too much power and not nearly enough transparency.
Not to get into the middle of your discussion with someone else, just figured i’d point out a few things from my point of view of your opinions on racism and what not.
When you just walk down the street in a decently diverse and large city, town, county, whatever, i think it can seem that the country is fine when it comes to issues of racial discrimination, since you no longer have to deal with simply getting beat up by angry white folk for being black in a town after dark. The reality though still is, that a black man in america is more likely to be arrested for non violent crimes and given jail time over probation then his white counter parts who commit the same exact crime. The reality which was shown by the statistics in ferguson, are that you are much more likely to get stopped by a cop while driving or questioned in general because of the assumption that you may be committing a crime, usually involved with drugs. The reality is that if i take my ass to a neighborhood that is mostly white upper middle class, put my car in park and sit on my hood to wait for a friend to come out, if i’m out there too long, someone is more likely to call the cops on me then if i was just some white kid (this varies. if you look like machine gun kelly, they might call the cops on you. lol). The reality still is, that i can just be sleeping in my car with a white girl in the backseat, and as a black man, someone will call the police on me, and the cops will handcuff my friend and i, eventually take the girl away, even after pleading with the cops that they are her friends, and the black guy showing him the papers that her mother signed him off as the temporary guardian of her for the weekend. Again, even after all of that, they still took the girl away to CPS for no reason, but not before the cop ask the mother, ‘Are you aware your daughter is in Houston, Texas, with two black men?’, as if in 2014 its suppose to be uncommon to be white and have black friends. That story can be found here [details=Spoiler]http://abcnews.go.com/US/teen-dancer-legal-guardian-alleges-racial-profiling/story?id=21083133[/details], and was an old srk thread.
If a person has a suspicion that black americans are irrational and violent by default, then they are likely racist, and also very fucking stupid. The only way it wouldnt be illogical to jump to that suspicion, is if like 80+ percent of us were always involved in violent crimes, etc…, and thats simply not the case. Hell, i’d give you 60 percent, but again, its simply not the case, and most of the people in prison are in there for non violent drug offenses to my knowledge, not going around stabbing and raping people. Even the predominately black poverty stricken neighborhoods of america arent hell holes resembling futuristic dystopias where EVERYONE is killing each other. There are just a small group of people doing the violent crimes in relation to the population of blacks in the area, most of whom likely know each other, and are gang related in their violenct criminal act. When you look at the statistics, black people are likely to kill black people, like white people are likely to kill white people, and white people are out here committing crimes like a motherfucker too, with the white collar crimes being the most devastating blows to the country, so what is anyone even fucking talking about when it comes to “suspicion of black americans being irrational and violent”. You have to be the biggest, most blind, bias, idiot on planet earth to think some stupid shit like that.
Why would you even say all of that, only to in the end say youre sure that there are plenty of black americans who do look to improve their local communities from within? LOL. Its just weird to say, stop doing this, and stop doing that, but i believe a lot of you are already, so yeah. Maybe youre not black, so you do not feel comfortable speaking on the topic too strongly, but it just all came off weird to me.
Quite frankly, we can still always try harder. There is always room for improvement, but its not like we havent. Black communities all around the country havent gotten stronger and better the last couple decades alone because we just sat on our ass until someone else did something, but in collaborative efforts with government, local law enforcement, entertainment, and parents making sure their kids arent out here fucking up on the streets.
Black people have been torn apart (sometimes literally), beaten down, stripped of their heritage, stripped of their humanity, and plotted against even after they were free, being so far behind in the race of life in this country, and people are somehow completely lacking in sympathy towards that. Its not an excuse, its a REALITY. This is a human problem, not a black problem. If the same thing were done to white people, with their being a black majority instead, they would be in the same boat. **There is no racial superiority that makes anyone any less probable to have the same issues that many black americans in this country face if put in those conditions, but the state of mind is basically, “So what you fucking animals, just do better.”. **Fact of the matter is, WE ARE, even after getting fucked in the ass by assholes in this country for centuries, and maybe thats why we are still so feared, because as much as we’ve been beat down, here we are again rising to power slowly but steadily. Black culture (human culture. we are one species) permiates the fucking world once again like it had in the past before all the coverups.
Also, i just wanna say, even outside of this country, darker skin people in general are shunned or have problems with discrimination in their country. In mexico they still push the old white european agenda of lighter is better, and white is right, while completely ignoring the beauty and existence of their small population of Afro-mexicans, and darker skin people in general. The fact that the africans were in their country before european influence is rarely ever talked about, and the existence of the olmecs who came before the aztecs and mayans. In asia you have the same obsession with whiteness, and the darker asians dont have the same love directed at them as they do for fairer skin asians, especially asians with more “negroid” features. King kamehameha of hawaii was an african man, but how often do you hear of that. I could go on for ages discussing this shit. So even outside of america, the world seems to not fucking like black skinned people, and for what reason. There is no evidence to support that type of bullshit hate, especially considering africans were all over the place alongside others, spreading knowledge, building shit all throughout europe, teaching their spiritual systems to many, teaching them to fight, and doing their thing in general. The very gods they pray to are fucking black, but dont let them know that shit. They probably still think buddha is asian. lol. Tons of racism in brasil against Afro-brazilians. The list goes on, its fucking sad.
**I know i seem obsessed with race, but im not in the negative way some people might take it. If there is no education on the reality of who humans are, where they come from, and how we have all influenced and interracted with each other before racial caste systems introduced by some “blood thirsty”, “white” europeans, i think people will further fail to see the unity of us as a species. Furthermore, i cannot allow people to have such wild opinions not based on reality or facts without checking that shit. Especially if it paints “blacks” in a bad light. I’d be doing them an injustice in letting them believe that wrong shit. **
While unity is the bigger goal, and thing i preach when appropriate, i acknowledge i need to do more surface level work when it comes to race relations. If i can at least get people to see how large the africans influence is on global culture, how ostracized the african and black man have been over time, i can then start to break it down even further to how unified we all really are in general, and its not just a black, white, asian, native american, etc… thing.
LOL
Yeah, I wrote this to justify what I immediately suspected when you didn’t tow the line.
-It had nothing to do with your constant need to bolster any other excuse as plausible
-It had nothing to do with you showing hostility to even the consideration that race played a role.
It had nothing to do with you showing complete bias towards the official chronology that the cops gave regarding the shooting (ie the struggle for the gun)
-It had nothing to do with you outright admitting that you were skeptical( i.e doubtful, in other words didn’t believe) that race played a part in this shooting because of the classic “boy who cried wolf,” axiom.
Give me a break. You were straight trying to fool us with this open-minded crap, I caught into your game, you got defensive and then screwed up and admitted that you basically came to this conversation with your own prejudices. You flat out admitted that you were doubtful that race played a part in this case because in your words “boy who cried wolf.” But oh wait it had nothing to do with evidence. It was me going by my own suspicion.
Oh god, the classic; I think you’re racist because of your beliefs crap. It had nothing to do with you actually making outright racist statements, no it is because “I’m some libertarian and white so you must think I’m racist.” Nevermind the fact that you painted the “black community” as a race of people who was unwilling to fight crime in its own neighborhood and instead solely blame the problems on the white man. Wide sweeping ignorant overgeneralizations of an entire race-oh but I’m not racist. How can you construe that for being racist? How dare you focus on that post? No you must think I’m a racist because of my beliefs.
More sweeping generalizations to reinforce your small-minded beliefs. To pretend that this doesn’t happen in our neighborhoods is foolish. But it is also foolish to think that there aren’t some kind of countermessage that doesn’t take place in our communities and you vastly, vastly, vastly overstate the people who calls another black person an “Uncle Tom or an Oreo or at least a fool,” for going against the negative stereotypes or the notion that blacks should be held to a lower standard. Indeed, you will often hear just as many black people call out some motherfucker in the street for “coonin,” “shucking and jivin” or living off public assistance without trying to get a job, wearing pants off their ass, the clothes they wear or the way they speak because they feel that they are selling out their race. This shit happens everyday, and this debate happens everyday. Once again you’re speaking on a subject and communities you know nothing about.
If you honestly believe that this one incident is what sparked this outrage going on in the streets then you are an idiot.
I toss out the “racist” card without pause? No I toss out the racist card when there is evidence and even though you are trying to back away your earlier statement about how as a community we seem to accept (or be indifferent) to crime is flat out one hundred percent racist. It is coming from the mind of a person who has this preconceived notion of black people who try to pass the buck and only show outrage towards whites for the problem in the community, but seem to treat crime as a way of life and natural. When you apply such a disgusting label to a race and seem to think that it is apart of their culture and way of life; that’s racism or at least prejudice.
Once again you only show your concern and outrage at this events not because of the possible race implications but because it fits into your ideology. It can be about excessive force by the police, the war on drugs, and the anxiety of the police state because it fits into your right-wing Libertarian beliefs. But the racial aspects isn’t worth mentioning.
BTW you said some real horseshit about “So you can call me a racist all you want- I’ve heard it plenty of times before from the PC police and multiple liberals who can’t actually counter me in a debate.”
Please, from what I see whenever you get backed into a corner your only mode to go into is fallacies. You ignore the points I made that poured damage on your argument then you try to make it about something superficially similar and pretend that you won. That is creating a strawman. Then you play the role of victim accusing others for ad hominem attacks, without acknowledging that you admitted to your own prejudices. Plus one more thing about a debate; remember the defense you made after I called you out for your shameful shilling of the police’s explanation?
Oh yeah you said nothing about that huh little fella.
Because you know that I caught you in your bullshit and outright using deception to try and cover up you tossing the salad of the Police Department ass with Apple Jelly. You didn’t want to say shit about that because you knew that you couldn’t defend yourself cause if you did you would have looked even more biased. As a debater you are nothing special and it was downright easy to see through your bullshit. The only thing difficult was putting everything into coherent words so I wouldn’t go all over the place. You’re not PresidentCamacho you’re Viper’s Bitch.
Nae I completely agree with Pedo on that one, jack shit is gonna happen in ferguson. Could tell the very second the looting started, instead of picking up guns and ‘revolting’ idiots were trashing stores and making away with rims. Like ffs narrow ass motherfuckers care more about making a couple of bucks looting than being outraged over oppression.
Riots in England in 2011 looked closer to a revolution than this shit. The deployment of the national guard is nothing but a knee jerk reaction thanks to an incompetent predominately white police force having no handle on how to deal with a few hundred black people in the street with loud voices.
McWarrior can choose my AV for a month if this shit escalates to the extent it makes it over here on my news with people actually worried about it.
“Cliche” is not an applicable word when stuff straight of** Orwellian fiction** is happening right in front of us. This is not in any way funny, or non-serious.
This is history being written live.