PresidentCamacho:
blackartsviper:
PresidentCamacho:
blackartsviper:
PresidentCamacho:
Let’s please take ABC’s word with a grain of salt after the whole “He looks suspicious. He looks black” tape edit ( http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-sues-nbc-news-portraying-racist-predatory/story?id=17897214 ). Let’s also not pretend that the media in general doesn’t love churning these problems for ratings.
So now we have a few different issues going on:
The incident itself. which we still don’t know the full details of. What we do know is that the cop was trying to detain Brown, and that Brown was involved in a robbery. Was there a struggle? Was there an attempted gun grab? We still don’t know for sure. Was this a case of the extreme excessive force police have been increasingly displaying at any sign of resistance (which, by the way, is not limited to black people)? It seems like the majority of people here still refuse to even entertain the notion that Brown fought. Is it really a far stretch to conclude that there’s a chance that someone who was in a robbery (as in a show of force robbery, not shoplifting) might fight police, particularly in an area where there already existed tensions between citizens and law enforcement? My personal speculation (bold font because I’m sure people reading are sure to not catch it otherwise) at this point was that there was a struggle, and the cop went too far after the legitimate threat had ceased- understandable given the adrenaline of such a struggle, but still wrong and worthy of manslaughter at the least. Unfortunately, the consensus here seems to be that anyone not towing the line of Brown being 100% innocent in the matter is racist, which is a fine example of the sort of shit I lamented earlier in the thread. It’s pretty hard to legitimately get to the bottom of something when discussion is drowned in such accusations from the start, and even if facts prove otherwise, the incident will forever remain an example of racism in the memories of people already shouting it.
The rioting/looting. Premature, evil, and counter-productive, yet criticizing them is met with accusations of ignoring the shooting and racism (again). I guess the proper thinking at this point is that Brown was shot by a cop, and nothing leading up to it nor nothing that followed matters, only that an unarmed black teen was shot by police.
The extreme actions of law enforcement to put down what we’re being told were peaceful protests at that point, and police suppression of the 1st amendment. At this point, I’ve made it clear that I believe the reaction to Brown’s shooting was premature and fueled by the desire to see everything as a product of racism. That said, this show of force, and the sort of culture that views police as domestic military, is unjustifiable and should worry everyone. If you think this sort of police reaction is limited to black America, you’re fooling yourself and missing the bigger picture. Save the riot police and riot gear for actual riots, not protestors.
In conclusion, we have a nasty situation that has been made much worse, and there’s no end in sight to racial problems in America when racism is screamed immediately and constantly. Hostilities between police and citizens in UBN’s will increase, and the majority of real root problems in UBN’s will continue to be largely ignored in favor of the ubiquitous charge of racism. Legitimate racism (which, contrary to popular belief, is more than a one way street), where it actually exists, will continue to foment as bitterness builds, with race hustlers churning away. Seems like any way you slice it, we as Americans lose. I know I sure as shit wouldn’t want to be a cop in an urban neighborhood right now.
In conclusion, we have a nasty situation of people like you who try to give every biased benefit of the doubt to the police and try to give every other conclusion under the sun, but try to downplay the possibility of race could have played in this case. There is one thing by saying that we shouldn’t jump to conclusion, but people like you are doing something that is entirely sleazy.
You try to come up with any kind of excuse for this shooting, and take the words of the COP AS GOSPEL WITHOUT ANY KIND OF CRITICAL ANALYSIS WHATSOEVER. Any other possible reason for this shooting is worth mentioning, yet when the idea of race is thrown into the picture; you’re so quick to put the wall up and say “NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Let’s not bring race into the picture!” Give me a fucking break. do you not think that people here wouldn’t see through your bullshit? You can come here and claim all you want that what you’re trying to do is be open-minded, but it’s obviously not the case.
You need to look at yourself in the mirror son. You’re just as bad as the people who claim racism over the most
Oh yeah in regards to the protesters, the anger isnt the criticism over the rioters and the looters. No, the problem comes when conservatives and racists who try to only focus on those people as the sole agents of this unrest, and mention jack diddly shit about the peaceful protesters. But that is to be expected, the peaceful protestors don’t count because they don’t confirm your biases.
Goddamn, I’m chocking on the irony here. Who’s showing bias with statements like “You try to come up with any kind of excuse for this shooting, and take the words of the COP AS GOSPEL WITHOUT ANY KIND OF CRITICAL ANALYSIS WHATSOEVER.” Who exactly has bias here? Who is entirely disregarding one party’s claim based on their group affiliation? Where was I taking the cop’s word as gospel? Did you miss the part where I said if my speculation was correct, the cop should be charged with manslaughter at the least? After that corn log, you still have the audacity to prattle on about confirmation bias and sleaze?
Dude you made these way too easy for me. But I thank you, because this is going to be fun.
this is your own quote
My personal speculation (bold font because I’m sure people reading are sure to not catch it otherwise) at this point was that there was a struggle, and the cop went too far after the legitimate threat had ceased- understandable given the adrenaline of such a struggle, but still wrong and worthy of manslaughter at the least. Unfortunately, the consensus here seems to be that anyone not towing the line of Brown being 100% innocent in the matter is racist, which is a fine example of the sort of shit I lamented earlier in the thread.
That was the exact explanation given by the Ferguson police department when the shooting happened.
That Brown went for the gun, there was a struggle, and then Officer Wilson shot him.
That was his side of the story from the beginning.
Of course there was Johnson’s account and the other independent witnesses who claimed that there was no struggle that Brown was grabbed by the throat and tried to pull himself away from the cop vehicle and was then shot.
There was no consideration of the witnesses’ explanation and no skepticism shown towards the police officer’s account.
But oh wait you were that same motherfucker who was admonishing the rioters for jumping to conclusions, and writing off the possibilities for the other sides of the story and not waiting to get all of the facts.
And you talked out both sides of your ass and still tried to defend this man.
My personal speculation (bold font because I’m sure people reading are sure to not catch it otherwise) at this point was that there was a struggle, and the cop went too far after the legitimate threat had ceased- understandable given the adrenaline of such a struggle, but still wrong and worthy of manslaughter at the least. Unfortunately, the consensus here seems to be that anyone not towing the line of Brown being 100% innocent in the matter is racist, which is a fine example of the sort of shit I lamented earlier in the thread.
So his actions were understandable, yet still wrong? Right, tell me that isn’t a contradiction.
It sounded to me that you were trying to make an excuse; that you were trying to paint a picture of a man who was a good cop who felt took revenge on some thug who tried to do them wrong. You
that anything else could have been sinister about the murder. As for the possibility of it being that it might be viewed as racist, it is met with hostility.
That’s why I’m calling you out, because you people are straight hypocrites.
You try come out here and try to fucking pass your message off as being “open-minded” and criticize those who jump to the automatic conclusion of racism being the motivator of this murder. Yet the mere mention of the possibility of racism brought up by anybody and you label them as “playing the race card.”
You preach about waiting til all the facts are out, but in reality this mean:
You’re not about getting to the bottom of things, you’re about rigging the game to make the Ferguson Police looks as favorable as possible. You’re completely full of shit.
The cop’s story left out the whole part about the threat ceasing before the shooting, which is pretty fucking important, considering that whether or not it was a defensive shooting hinges on that very fact. If I bought the cop’s whole story, I wouldn’t be saying that it sounds like he committed manslaughter at the least. I said “understandable” because IF there was a struggle for the gun there would be a huge amount of adrenaline pumping, and historically people who go for police’s guns end up shot. Shooting a man you catch in bed with your wife is understandable, but still murder; no contradiction there. “Understandable” does not mean “right”.
Am I sure about any of this? No, and I don’t pretend to be- that’s the difference between my speculation and that of those I’ve bemoaned. Yes, I admit I would like to believe that cops aren’t just gunning down black people with no reason, given that the very purpose of their jobs is to protect the public from that sort of thing. Maybe that actually was the case here, but I’ve been made skeptical by people who scream racism at every single opportunity, all the way down to the comments sections on stories about black robbers being shot in the act of holding up people at gunpoint. That corn log floating around about “1 US black man killed extra-judicially every 28 hours by police or vigilantes” is a prime example, as even 10 seconds of consideration should make it plain that being “killed extra-judicially by police or vigilantes” generally means being killed in the act of committing a crime like armed robbery or home invasion (the numbers themselves also sound pretty goddamn dubious, but that’s beside the point), yet it makes the rounds all over the internet as “proof” that America is looking to gun down black men at every opportunity. Like I said earlier, it’s the boy who cried wolf effect: scream it all the time when it’s not true, and people are less likely to believe it when it is true. Apparently you also missed that whole part where I talked about the increasing use of excessive force by police, a regular phenomenon that everyone should be worried about, and one that only makes the headlines when the victim is black.
Any way you slice it, the officer should face a jury. If he’s guilty of manslaughter or murder, he should be punished accordingly, and I personally believe that cops should face much harsher penalties than ordinary citizens due to their roles. If the whole FPD is corrupt, it should be cleaned out. If black America feels that the police are an outside and hostile force, it would be prudent for more law abiding black Americans to join the force and work on straightening it up from the inside. As I said earlier in the thread, I believe cops being recorded at all on duty hours would be hugely beneficial to society.
OK I gotta go to work so I can’t get into details just yet, but man when I get off from work I’m going to respond in full and I am going to just fucking tear you down.
a15kko
August 18, 2014, 2:03am
302
They got monks over there now? wow
Why are they here for? I’m assuming its to stop the looting and rioting? They’re a bit late, eh?
[details=Spoiler] Where’s Krillin?
Hotobu
August 18, 2014, 2:31am
305
Man if any fighting goes down in the streets I’m with the monks.
Wil
August 18, 2014, 2:42am
307
Giving cops military gear is like giving a monkey a gun.
I say that because cops are only slightly smarter than monkeys, and trusting them with guns has already gone very poorly.
haney
August 18, 2014, 3:40am
310
to much monk not enough funk
BEWD
August 18, 2014, 4:01am
311
Not at all.
Also consider what the FBI and local police were doing back in the 60s with COINTELPRO. Several cases of them infiltrating groups, turning people against each other, and prompting groups into violent confrontations with the police or each other(such as when they pit the Black Panther Party against several black gangs and civil rights groups).
"Black Power
Following the Watts Riots, black street clubs in South L.A. begin to unite and organize politically against police brutality. The Black Power Movement gains strength nationally, and violent gang activity decreases in L.A., as former members of gangs like the Slausons join up with the Black Panther Party (BPP), the US Organization and other socially conscious groups.
The FBI, working with the Los Angeles Police Department, feels threatened by the strength and numbers of Black Nationalist groups and intimidates, incarcerates and assassinates many of the movement’s leaders. The FBI’s COINTELPRO program incites violence between US and the BPP, resulting in the murders of two of L.A. BPP leaders in 1969. "
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/cripsandbloods/timeline.html
I heard zimmerman came to ferguson to help out… is this true?
bmckay
August 18, 2014, 4:42am
313
No, it absolutely does not. He wasn’t BEING arrested. You can’t BE arrested for jaywalking without certain circumstances. He wasn’t a suspect in the robbery so the cop had no reason TO arrest him.
Raz0r
August 18, 2014, 4:59am
314
According to the officer he was disrupting traffic so he could have stopped and ticketed him. For now we have no idea what actually happened to cause the officer to shoot him the first time.
RX-78-3:
Tear gas is being fired and looting is getting worse.
If any SRK peeps are in St. Louis, please be safe and be extremely cautious if you have to go out.
Looks at custom tag
Newport news? As in,“Near Newport News naval shipyard”? Heh. Used to live there for a while when I was a sailor. well, I lived on the ship, but you get the point.
-Starhammer-
Hotobu
August 18, 2014, 6:00am
316
The rationale is that he knew he committed a crime, maybe the officer was after him because of that. Kind of like when you were a kid and you know you did something bad, and here comes one of your parents. Even if they didn’t say anything about what you did you’re still on high alert because you think they may know something.
bmckay
August 18, 2014, 6:30am
317
I agree.
Hotobu:
The rationale is that he knew he committed a crime, maybe the officer was after him because of that. Kind of like when you were a kid and you know you did something bad, and here comes one of your parents. Even if they didn’t say anything about what you did you’re still on high alert because you think they may know something.
I mean, I guess that’s possible, but I mean, that puts the blame back on the victim. Here’s something I’m curious about: where’s the first bullet? If it was fired in the car, where is it now? Still there? Still in Mr. Brown? If it’s still in dude, that’s kinda impressive to me at that kind of range.
Wil
August 18, 2014, 6:37am
318
Supporters Of Police Officer Who Shot Unarmed Teen Dead Stage Rally, Raise Thousands - http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/08/17/3472284/supporters-of-police-officer-who-shot-unarmed-teen-dead-stage-rally-raise-thousands/
The rally was organized through Facebook page — Support Darren Wilson — which has garnered over 18,000 likes. The administrators of the page encouraged the protesters not to speak to the media. Several people in attendance, however, did speak to Jon Swaine, who covered the rally for The Gaurdian. One attendee, Damon Andersen, predicted that as a result of the controversy “Ferguson will now be forced to hire 10 African American police officers… Let the black officers see how difficult it is to try and deal with the black criminals…”
Organizers also are raising money for Darren Wilson to cover “any financial needs… including legal fees.” One donor, who identified himself as John Dawson, wrote “As a retired officer I have run into thugs like Mike Brown also. Why do we let the media make a hero out of a thug and a criminal out of a good officer.” As of Sunday evening, the effort raised over $2100.
Gravity
August 18, 2014, 6:44am
319
Shin_Jr
August 18, 2014, 6:53am
320
