Actually, the one with the bad comprehension is still you. I still admitted that Guy was not the best character in the world, and that to win, you would have to work to do it, but you people act like this man is as bad as Dan is, when in fact he has some tools to help him out. Yeah, there are other characters with much better tools, but Guy is not helpless like you make him out to be. But, I’m done arguing about it. There’s no point arguing with brick walls, especially when they want to try to do the “we’re right because we’re teaming up on you” argument strategy. We can play whenever I have the time, which will likely be Friday when I go to my friend’s spot. You can play him and myself.
Well, Guy has always had a very high, floaty jump since Alpha 2, I think. I guess they wanted to translate that over to SSF4. Haha, unfortunately, though, having a floaty jump can get you murdered in this game…
I’ll agree that Guy sucked in A2 compared to A1 and A3, but Guy didn’t suck in A3 not at all, and he definitely was a rushdown character in A3, even if he alongside a few characters were dominant is A-ism he still did well, and could easily fend off against anyone with a VC, especially the fact that he has a walljump makes it easier for him because he can avoid moves and such. Run overhead and slide were actually good, especially against fireball characters because if you time it right you can trade and it could be a deal breaker because it knocks down the opponent with a counter hit. Overhead was useful in and out of the corner, mp-hp/overhead, could surprise the opponent if crouching, even has the ability to crossup, mp-hp/bushin flip. You could pressure with the elbow,crossup with the elbow, and if the opponent stands up or jumps you can catch them, then theres mp-hp.lp hozanto, WHICH was completely safe on block.
If Guy lands a level 3 kick super it meant a LOT especially considering if you did, mp hp xx lvl3 and it pushed them into the corner. The follow up combos, FF chain (twice if possible) into mp hp bushin flip elbow is practically a guaranteed stun or close to it, and if they get stunned, Jump HP FF chain x2, and if you want you can possibly go for mp hp bushin flip or if you can proximity cancel into Bushin flip, and chances are your opponent would be dead in that situation.
Guy may have been Crank, but being mid tier means everyone plays him differently whether that be defensive or offensive with smart play, also Counter hits for game and walk cancels were a huge part of Guy’s game. So Guy was definitely a contender and you can watch Kiyo or even Daigo when he plays Guy to see that.
lol… you guys talking about A2 Guy have no clue
if A2 Guy was ported to SSF4 with some of the current juggles in place, he would be very, very good.
If they allowed guy to be able to juggle in ways he should be able to juggle he would be good. I wish guy had the same frame data that he did in the alphas that would make a huge difference too.
I was comparing A2 Guy to A1/A3 Guy.
So in 6 months when it’s established that he kind of sucks, then what? I’m actually happy that he sucks, this means in the next game/version/patch he has the potential to get the most buffs/least amount of nerfs. As I’ve said, tiers will really not change in this game until they actually address why the lower tiered characters were bad to begin with, rather than nerf the better characters. Guile had the right things done to him, and people were the most vocal about him getting buffed. Things like walk speed and normals are what rule this game, Guy is lacking in both of those right now. And they wont patch things like walk speed. Like I said in another post, most of the new cast feel underdeveloped and rushed. The current cast destroys them in the normals department. You have to see it this way. SFIV had been in development for X amount of years, then console port was made in less than a years time. In this time they added 6 brand new characters that weren’t in originally. So…let’s see.
Dan - of course trash
Rose - meh
Cammy - trash
Sakura - trash
Gen - trash
Fei Long - trash
And we can even throw in Gouken who was not playable in the arcade version and when they made him playable he ended up sucking.
So do we see how the development process operates? They didn’t put enough time into most of the new cast IMO because it was only a year between the games. And when play tested no one knows what the characters are lacking so they cant say “Hey Capcom this needs to be fixed because it doesn’t do this” They dont have time to discover that stuff during private play tests and such.
shrugs I dunno…I’m gonna keep playing him and hope things start going our way. Sorry for the long post.
You’re right Eiji about console character develpmnt = SSF4 new comers devpmt.
I don’t understand why player don’t complain much than that. Here’s, on shoryuken I mean, we have probably some of the best player in the whole world who can compete with japanese clean, even capcom said they read the board sometimes. So why just ALL the best player on shoryuken accord themselve and send a big letter about what the game and all the character REALLY NEED to Capcom ?
No broken suggestion, just what character need to be balanced and I’m not talking about guy only. Is not the only character who need to be fixed.
I don’t know eiji, just because Guy is not very good now doesn’t mean he has a lot of potential to get buffs from capcom. Yes it worked for Guile but I believe even Marn in a video interview long ago said that if Guile got just minor tweaks he would be top tier or maybe even broken. It turned out that he’s about top tier now or at least a pretty good character. Vega, gen, sakura, fei, cammy, didn’t get that many buffs in ssf4 but I do find them solid characters though. It’s all up to capcom and a little bit of luck on what happens with Guy next.
exactly whats so good about a2 guy compared to the rest of the cast? everything he can do in a2, 90% of the cast can do better.
I like how everyone is talking like its ‘fact’ that Guy sucks…
So I guess how it works around here is that you need Japanese players to start winning tournaments with Guy (cause American players already have, right?) before people start saying that they knew all along that Guy is good?
Seriously. Anyone who has the following tools can’t possibly be as bad as everyone here seems to think he is:
A very technical offensive game that can dizzy you in 3-4 correct consecutive guesses that’s based off:
- Jab/Short combos that lead to a hard knockdown, which in turn set up safe jumps… that can again lead to a hard knockdown.
- Option selects that lead to hard knockdowns (and that work even against Akuma teleports). Once a hard knockdown connects go to (1).
- Special moves that move across the screen VERY FAST and lead to a hard knockdown. These moves can be aborted at any time, making them relatively safe… but once they do connect, you get a hard knockdown, and go straight to one (1).
- A footsie move that leads to hard knockdown. For people who say that Guy’s footsie’s suck, here’s a tip: Walk forward and backward, wait for the opponent to whiff a move, press d+HK. Seague into (1)
On top of that he’s got defensive tools better than half the cast:
- An invincible move that hits on the 4th frame. Learning to autocorrect with this move isn’t easy, since if you do it wrong, you get Ex Bushin Run… but its very possible, and the dividends are there.
- An Ultra (Ultra 2) that kills safe jumps. (Thanks Alioune!)
- An armour dash. People are sleeping on this move, but I’m beginning to see it a great tool to counter footsie range pressure.
- A good backdash.
- Armour cancel moves. Too early to say if they’re going to be really good or useless, but I would put money on Armour Cancel> Ex Bushin Leap being a very powerful option in certain match ups.
Guy is a character that lives off getting all his knockdown/safe jump set ups frame perfect and his option select inputs done right consistently- so people aren’t going to see the full range of what he is capable off until players have had a few months to get all the shit down. An offensive Guy done well isn’t going to look like Daigo playing Guy in Alpha 3… its going to look like Daigo playing Ryu in SF4.
don’t waste your time, AcidicEnema. here on SRK, in this thread, Guy is weaker than Dan. He has no footsie game, no damage, and has trouble getting people to the corner. That’s what this thread has taught me.
lol doesn’t really matter, it’s not gonna help ssf4 Guy one bit by discussing the alpha series. It is what it is
The problem is you’re putting Guy on paper. And on paper he seems really solid. But when you actually play him against most of the cast, he has to work a lot harder for a win. On paper his bad matchups are going to be grapplers and defensive spacing characters like Guile and Chun. So automatically were looking at best and even matchup against 4 or 5 characters. Are there really any characters in the upper tiers that he beats hands down? Right now, no and it may be too early to tell. But just because someone from Japan can win with Guy doesn’t make him any better. There were Japanese Claw and Fuerte players who probably managed to win. Doesn’t mean their characters are “good”. So right now Guy’s placing in the tiers simply means that he has to work hard for wins and I don’t think any of us can disagree with that. Yes he can win, but it’s no cakewalk. So until new things are discovered about him that make it easier for him to win, he’s going to remain towards the bottom.
How come everyone assumes that just because their character isn’t great, he was “rushed”? I really doubt that the development team looked at any of the characters and was like “Oh, fuck it, just put him in there and see what happens!”.
I dunno, it just seems like because every new character isn’t TOP tier that they were “rushed”. Completely ignoring the fact that Cody, Ibuki, Dudley, Adon and Juri are very solid characters in their own right, and every other new character is actually pretty good. I’m in the Adon threads a lot, and they keep saying that he was “rushed”, and that’s why they can’t win with him. That sounds like total crap because it is. The developers probably have an idea of how the character should be played as opposed to what nostalgic fans WANT them to be played. So if Guy was rushdown before, well, maybe they didn’t want his rushdown game to be as effective if not in the corner.
TLDR; stop saying that the character was rushed, as that’s just another excuse to not play the game and see what ou can find in a year or so. Keep playing and stick with the character, because he’s a competitive, fundamentall solid character that can wreck people with short combos.
Have you seen some of the ridiculous things the new characters lose too? Ibuki is the best right now because of her mixup potential. But everyone else…eh…Juri is not that good, she’s really unsafe and once she gets knocked down she’s fucked. Makoto enough said…Cody has good damage, but can be rushed down easily. Dudley has stupid damage and some solid moves but again if he’s knocked down or rushed down he’s fucked. I think we know how I feel about Guy. Adon I dunno too much about other than Rising Jaguar loses to jabs which is fucking terrible. Hakan is terrible unless he’s oiled up. My overall feeling is that they didn’t wanna give the new cast anything too good for fear of breaking the game, when actually it may have helped balance it a bit more.
I think you’re mistaking all of them being bad for them not having a great wakeup game. Hakan is actually shaping up really well, and do you know why? Because UltraDavid, a vet, is taking the time to look at what Hakan can offer, and he’s found some really great stuff, it makes Hakan look pretty great against most of the cast.
That’s really all every new character needs, a strong veteran player working their magic on the new guys. Look at Alioune. I’d be very surprised if he doesn’t have the same complaints as some of you guys. Yet on youtube, he’s got videos of 80% damage corner combos for Guy, among other strong combos. He’s working hard to improve the character, and he seems to be doing pretty good. He was hanging with some vets on a recent Justin.TV stream pretty well.
I’ve gotten my Guy to be halfway decent… and I absolutely tear through noobs/scrubs/intermediates. When it comes to good players though, his problems really start to show. Once someone knows how to handle the matchup, it’s an uphill battle for Guy. A lot of stuff that Guy has requires their opponent to “flinch”… which on paper, looks easy as Guy has a lot of rush options. The thing is, a patient player who knows the matchup won’t flinch on your mixups.
Yes, on paper, there’s some good OS options, good hard knockdown to safe jump options, etc… But again, it’s on paper. I’ve done tests on Guy’s BnB runslide combo into neutral jump HK on the whole cast. It’s his “go to” safe jump and it doesn’t work on quite a bit of the higher tier characters.
Examples:
-Ryu/Ken/Akuma SRK’s startup fast enough where this setup will get stuffed
-Sagat, completely whiffs
-Bison, the setup “works” but his reversals that you are trying to bait out will leave him safe or are annoying to handle even after baiting them out (ex psycho crusher, ex stomp -> escape follow up.
There’s more, I just don’t remember all the problems with his safejump setup.
I would say he has 2-3 decent OS but they aren’t great by any definition of the word. C.mp OS ex Hozanto just doesn’t have enough range. At close distance, it’s easy to do it accidentally too close and get it blocked and punished. At a distance, it’s really prone to high priority sweeps like Rog’s. C.lk OS mk tatsu has the exact same issues. His c.lp -> C.lp+C.HK option select for backdash is another annoying one… as the c.lp’s active frames are so short, the timing becomes strict. I can’t even count how many times I’ve been thrown trying to meaty a C.lp. Whats worse… some of the cast get up at different speeds from a knockdown. C.mp becomes more reliable for meaty (or c.mk) but there’s no good wakeup meaty OS for c.mp that I know of.
As of right now, I’m just worried about some of the stuff that actually scores damage/gets in for me reliably. It’s only reliable now because people haven’t wizened up to it yet. Stuff like point blank jump/close jump (to make your opponent think the arc will go behind them) and elbow cancel works now… but will probably not work later. The occasional bunshin flip mixup that “jukes” people into trying to block high will not work in the future.
Run-Overhead mixups will probably be option selected eventually since I’ve been hit out of it many times and I think it’s only a matter of time before someone figures out an OS that will shut it down. C.HK as a footsies tool is only somewhat reliable since it’s really unsafe on block (unlike Ryu’s sweep, which is relatively safe unless you become predictable and your opponent supers/ultra/special move punishes on reaction after block). The range which it becomes safe is far enough where your opponent won’t “whiff” a slow footsie move to easily counter footsie with slide. There’s more but I think some get the point.
I don’t think he sucks… I just think he could use some work. I personally think he would be fixed with really minor tweaks.
-Faster jump (same arc is ok… make it fast like Gen’s) Guy doesn’t have many reliable crossup setups on knockdown besides in the corner precisely because his jump is so floaty and slow. By the time the jump reaches them, they are up to either jump back and get reset or do a reversal. There’s no safejump crossup setups outside of the corner besides spacing it and timing it yourself… which is difficult. I’m not sure backthrow , forward dash, crossup is air tight… I could be wrong here though.
-Better far S.MK… (It wont be broken since you can’t cancel it into anything from far so it’ll be purely a footsie tool)
or maybe even far S.MK as is, but can be cancelled! That would be ace.
-S.LK into bunshin chain like Alpha
-More reliable ways to land U1. As it is, with all its quirks AND being corner only, I’ve been using U2 more since it fits my style of play of rush down bait punish patterns.
My 2cents.
Guys throw glitch shows he was rushed in development, and of course there is possible rooms for changes but it’s still Guy had good qualities in Alpha that they could easily have gotten transferred over into SSFIV, his speed for one is slower than it was in Alpha in moves and in movement, really all everyone is really asking for is to buff Guy’s speed on some moves and normals, give a bit more priority in normals at least make MK tatsu decent outside of combos as it was in Alpha and if possible give him a faster walk speed.
So because of one glitch that means he was rushed? Dude, c’mon…
There’s more than one actually. It may have come after they tweaked his hitbox, because originally Akuma couldn’t close hp xx lk tatsu him at all. It whiffed him completely, then they did something so that it would hit, and this may be why he has hitbox issues. And look at the community. Guy has been the most under the radar as far as media goes. There have been no tutorials or specific combo vids outside of this forum. Either people can’t figure him out or it’s because he’s so mediocre that no one cares. Even Sonic Hurricane had this to say…
“Guy?s arsenal of links continues to expand, but he lacks that technical edge to reach the next plateau. So far he?s more style than substance ? built for mixups rather than combos. Makoto may have the same problem. All of their tools lead to conventional combos in the end.”