Actually, I found that Japan / France connection is good… That’s strange I know… I’ve already fought some Japanese top player on the xboxlive.
I played irl , Tokido is in france at the moment , ill answer in abit , in a hurry now.
Maybe throw out EX BSK a bit later or if anything TK Izuna im not sure if anyone has tried it to see if Guy can win or lose in that situation. I haven’t fought a single Akuma online however I think if Akuma is trying to get away with air fireball pressure, depending on the spacing of course Bushin Flip may work, and if you do EX Run if he backs him self into the corner would Run/Overhead be better could set up for more damage. Especially since overhead > U1 does 542 Damage that isnt good for Akuma to get hit by.
Close ST.HK and ST.HP and MK hurricane and EX hurricane and Izuna Drop and quick reaction bushin flip grab ANNIHILATES ALL demon flip attempts CLEAN. Akuma Better not think about Demon Flipping against a good guy player. Let alone Jumping at all cus elbow drop or izuna drop beats anything he has in the air even his tatsus of all types.
Ultra 2 is what you want in this matchup. I once caught akuma doing an air fireball and run stopped under it and nailed him. The whole crowd exploded lol. It also punishes tatsus and srk. And maybe if you slide under a demon flip you can punish him from behind as he lands for an ultra 2. you can also anticipate a teleport and run and it automatically follows him and stops next to him for a free u2 on his recovery. Ultra one is also good too. It comes down to preference.
You can easily backdash from his block strings and tick throw attempts to escape the pressure. But his St.HK is a bitch to handle but a timed st.mk beats it if spaced right. Raging demons get stuffed by his d.mp elbow and ultra 1. Demons will beat u2 tho.
I play a pretty good akuma so from both sides I can see why the matchup can be to eithers advantage. Guy can output damage to akuma just as hard or more than Akuma can to him. But akuma gets free demons for just about your whole moveset with either super or ultra. He can punish MK and HK hozanto with super or Lp srk. Its still a 5/5 matchup tho. Both characters have all the tools to win it comes down to strategy on this one. But with akumas low health he cant afford too many mistakes. Like falling for guys baits that would be the death of him.
Again, you are not comparing apples to apples. That really is my whole point. You are basically coming in to a character “discussion” forum, and telling us not to discuss. Do you understand how counter intuitive that is? There is nothing wrong with discussing his weaknesses… In fact, it may help us better find ways to defend against these problems. The discussion is that some of his safe jump setups don’t work on certain characters in this case… not “if you practice, you can make it work” because then there wouldn’t be a point to discussing it now would there? An example of the discussion actually “working” is some people here claiming he has no good anti air when c.mk c.mp and autocorrect ex tatsu are great when used right…THERE is an example of why it is OK to discuss. People who don’t know will learn from those who do. Or new ways to deal with shortcomings will be shared and we all grow as a community
I’ve put in a lot of time on Guy, and I’m not saying that he’s useless. I’m just stating certain facts about his game… which you are negating with really off topic logic such as tier discussion and or time spent on a character. That isn’t the point of the discussion here in this thread specifically. Regardless of tiers, I have stuck with Guy… There is also absolutely no point in discussing amercan vs japanese players.
I, however, do think that some of the stuff being discussed really makes no sense whatsoever… for example, ex hozanto is fine the way it is. I’m sure those who have spent enough time with Guy have realized that fireball characters (minus maybe dhalsim) don’t really give Guy trouble. There’s a lot of ways to get the spacing you want with Guy WHILE avoiding fireballs. I think, however, discussion needs to be made about characters that DO give Guy trouble… such as Honda, Bison, Balrog.
We can either discuss ways that could help in those matchups… or ways we can get around his shortcomings with the current tools that we DO have. If you don’t believe I have proficiency using Guy, feel free to add me on PSN…
Bison can go Either way for Guy. He can pressure you and you can pressure him, You can grab him out of Pyscho crusher on its start up IF you time it right risky yes but he attempts it you can punish it, I also believe you punish it on block, and can even TK Izuna Psycho Crusher and Punisher. And Bushin Flip can grab Him out of U2 as well. If you anticipate him to do it of course. What you to avoid is Bison putting you in the corner. If he does you have two option wait it out for him to make a mistake or risk using EX BSK or mk tatsu. Maybe EX run could save you.
Against his head stomp Izuna can beat it if you time it right, Just play it safe in this match and if Bison is pushing you into the corner WALLJUMP is your friend in that situation so use it to your advantage. Just be optional with it so Bison doesn’t expect it every time.
Some of these things I already do… I’m not losing to his special moves. I’m mostly losing to Bison’s footsies -> safe scissor kick and more footsies… Same way I’m losing to good rogs that just play footsies all day with c.lp, s.hk, c.hk… and of course level 1 tap, which is completely safe on block against Guy. The only way I can get close to winning against footsie bison and footsie rog is to not play footsies… if that makes any sense. I completely avoid that footsie range and run all over the level.
I’ve never met a Bison that really used Footsies so I’m guessing st mp, cr mp, and st mk are of no use? Bummer, I know footsie war against Balrog is not good unless you can land a counterhit probably applies to both.
No wish to argue with you because you’re talking a lot of sense now. My only point in the first place was that it’s erroneous to say that his main safe jump set up “doesn’t work on quite a bit of the higher tier characters” because, they do work with the right adjustments, which is a large part of learning how to make match up knowledge work for you. Like I pointed out- there is a distinct difference between saying that “It doesn’t work” and “It works only if you make the necessary adjustments” because Adon is the exception that proves the rule- no matter how you cut it, the safe jump set up doesn’t work against him. With every other character, it appears there are ways of making the safe jump set up work for you. We might just be arguing about language down here, but it matters because we’re in a forum where people are talking about Guy like its ‘fact’ that he’s in the lowest tier.
Scenario 1 is neutral indeed. Senario 2 leads to 150 damage for Ryu, and 300+ only if Ryu has Ultra. (By and by, I’ve stated before, vertical jump MP is probably better than vertical jump HK) Scenario 3 leads to a 300+ damage punish for Guy OR a 200 damage slide combo to continue the loop.
Based on that payoff schedule alone, its a slight advantage for Guy (risks getting hit by an uppercut versus the potential reward of a full punish combo) but obviously there’s a lot more.
Other possible scenarios: Ryu does a FADCed DP which is blocked (slight advantage for Guy… possibly might lead to a free Ultra 2 for Guy if the Ryu FADC’s forward, but I’m not sure that’ll happen a lot once people are more familiar with the match up), Ryu backdashes (OS slide and advantage for Guy if Guy had safe jumped, No punish/resets to a neutral situation if Guy didn’t safe jump).
The most important alternate scenario, however, is this: Ryu blocks, Guy does a safe jump which leads to a tick throw game- this is really the most important option of all because this is how I see it getting played out in high level the most- Instead of a taking unnecessary risks, the Ryu can just block and tech/crouch tech. On the other hand the Guy player can alternate between doing safe jump> c.LK> walk forward a little> Throw (which Ryu cannot jab out of if done right) and safe jump> c.LK> c.LK> s.MP> Slide which will can catch tech attempts because c.LK strings are a natural frame trap. Does this lead to a metagame with a clear advantage for Guy? I think so, but we’ll see if it does a few months down the road.
I doubt we’ll get a decent connection but I’m always willing to try, so sure.
AcidicEnema, I wasn’t really arguing to begin with. My only point was that comparing apples to apples, Guy has some shortcomings to his tools. I’m sure we can all agree on that. Of course, hardwork and ingenuity can be used to curb these shortcomings a little bit, and that is why I’m sure we are drawn to Guy. We like the way he plays.
And to make my stance clear, I don’t think he’s lowest of tiers. I believe he is mid… but what I’m concerned about is how the spread of his matchups look like. It’s like Zangief, he was pretty good when it came to “tiers” in vanilla, but his bad matchups happened to be also the top tiers like akuma , ryu and sagat… which made him not as tournament viable due to the abundance of those characters in tournys. There currently is an abundance of bisons, guiles and rogs due to bisons/guile’s buffs and rog’s relatively untouched nature. These matcups are a pain in Guy’s ass… that’s what I’m concerned about for the most part.
Lets just hope they buff him enough that he can stand up to at least have of the class. It would only be right. Cool looking characters have to be good! Plain and simple. Besides…he is a ninja.
P.S.: Low jab stops everything he does…I mean everything. Were are playing Super Street Fighter 4…not Virtua Fighter 5
Low jab could stop a lot of things in anything in Alpha 3 Guy’s was particularly dangerous due to being able to CH into Bushin Flip.
Stops some moves in 4 depending on the character but thanks to reset it isn’t a serious threat to really deal with. Just dont be predictable
Yea man, Guy is one of the coolest characters in the whole game lol I will say this though, his instant izuna is one of the most satisfying moves as well. I’ll still continue to use him since he’s a fun character
If guy had his combos from A3 but was worse id prefer that (though havin those would might make him good), I find it kind of dull that guy barely has any fun combo strings beyond target combo 1+special or bushin combo in corner + 2 specials, etc, etc.
A3 combos were only possible because of A3’s combo engine.
yep…and damn I find so many few people use Guy these days. Some players I know who started using him gave up and said he’s boring. I was surprised cause I don’t find him boring but their reasoning is cause he doesn’t have many combos and he’s very limited with not many options. It sucks that many are giving up on him but it’s understandable. It kinda makes it better being one of the few Guy players out there but w/e.
Most people aren’t capable of playing Guy, sadly.
I think it’s more of an issue of his character design and some flaws to his game. He’s not the same as the alpha series and he’s incomplete/rushed in ssf4. It’s kinda like Dan in sf4 where it’s not about knowing how to play him but why would you when he is limited and does pretty bad against most of the cast? or if you want to play someone hard to learn and execute then why not choose viper, abel, dhalsim, etc. where they at least can keep up with many characters, have options and are more viable in tournaments…Just saying what I think goes through most people’s minds when choosing a character or when giving up/avoiding Guy in ssf4.
I find I do just as well or better, I think its 75% in your head, also sometimes a characters (as cool as they are) just don’t fit your playstyle. Guy is high risk and tough reward in Jab fighter 4 so you have to work simple as that.
that’s another thing about playstyle. I think if you like how someone plays then you can learn how to with practise. I know many people say to pick a character that fits your playstyle but if you like a certain one even if it’s difficult, I think you can learn it.
I know people who have reached a certain level in sf and they can pick up any character they want as long as they like how they play. I think it’s just a matter of preference when ur a decent player, rather then a technical holdback or not being able to adapt to a certain playstyle. That only applys to begginers and a few intermidiate players IMO.
Guile, Viper, abel…don’t fit my playstyle but I know if I really liked those characters that I could learn them well if I take the time to. Some characters will take longer to learn but if you know the fundementals of sf, work on your execution and mach ups, then you should be able to pick up any character you want imo. Of course if said character sucks then you can’t really unlock much potential in that character and you’ll be at a disadvantage with your limited options but thats a different story.