everybody also missed the fact that he said the games were “harder” based on their CPU AI…gg scrub play a real person
Sabre: In KI2, Spinal’s dizzy fireball would eat every projectile, so you can counter Jago’s dragon with it and win from there with slide unblockables. Spiral isn’t so hot otherwise, but he can beat Jago pretty easily.
Wing:
KI 1: You HAD to know your breakers, or make a 1/3 guess. There were unbreakable combos. There were unblockables. There were NOT safe DPs, aside from Fulgore’s dash/DP, because NOTHING had any blockstun at all. Every character had a different combo flowchart, making the larger combos more interesting. Some better characters had easy infinites. Jago, Thunder, and Fulgore are GARBAGE compared to the top tier because they have almost nothing safe. I know, cuz I play Fulgore and Thunder. (^.^) True, it was a turtle-fest, but there was a lot of knowledge needed to win.
KI2/Gold: Breakers are 1/2 chance, and on top of that you can even do a kara-breaker with P->K and get it every time (whole lot easier in KI2 than in Gold). Therefore the only useful combos in real play are 2-hitters and the few 3+ hitters that aren’t breakable (normal->special->throw, air juggles, notably with Glacius). Every character has the same combo flowchart, meaning none of the bigger combos are interesting once you’ve done one. Jago (spirit move, dragon No Mercy, blazingly stupid 8+ hit unbreakable combos) and Fulgore (multiprojectiles > anyone without a teleport, safe DP, safe charge, sky-laser No Mercy which seeks, and a teleport himself) are good. Glacius (also stupid unbreakables, and a magic-throw for God’s sake) and Spinal (teleport, 2-hit into unblockable BS, dizzy fireball) IMO are second. Nobody else is anywhere. Plus you can’t throw someone who is attacking (you will get your Fierce instead, and get hit) so the only way throws served to make it not a turtle-fest is…wait, they don’t.
To sum up: KI2 = KI 1 with combos that are the same for everybody; 99%-guaranteed breakers; a gigantic difference between top and middle tiers; many characters having the complete inability to win against Jago once they were down to 1/4 life; and HAVING to guess to win.
And KIGold with Gargos having a stupidly easy infinite that you can start with an unbreakable, yeesh.
Mike Z
lol damn mike: i forgot about mentioning that about combo breakers, just press a punch and kick to break either or, FANTASTIC! i didnt know that about spinal againt the no mercy, interesting. overall you see the game the exact same way i see it. lol
i find it funny that he thinks we are throwing out opinions, when we are describing the actual rules of the game engine. when he hasnt even described anything about the engine that is hard. all he has said was real opinions from others like “magazine reviews were higher”. thats great, considering no magazine, post 1993, knows how to even play a fighter except for dream theater and lukesballs at tips and tricks. that and basing how good a game is off of cpu difficulty? wow.
bottom line, you can like ki2 more than ki 1 all you want. no one cares about that, but dont try to throw stuff at people that DO know wtf they are talking about as facts when they are OBVIOUSLY not. i went in depth on how the engine operates (which are cold hard facts) and stated why. you havent done that once except when it came to superficial shit that shouldnt even decide how good something is. but whatever dude.
How many people actually play KI tourneywise? There’s reason that the game isn’t played competitively. It’s broken as hell. I never said games were harder based on their CPU. If that was so, then that would have eliminated the turtling problems of KI1 because the CPU would be much cleverer than so. Stop putting words in my mouth. Amazing how people can flip ones words around. I’m stating how the game (KI2) is more bearable to play due to a more playable gaming engine. Less of a turtle fest.
Correct. As a software developer myself, I can assure you that software does unexpected things, even if you’re the one that wrote it. To fully know what a huge body of code does, is impossible. Software companies dedicate enormous portions of their resources to QA and testing teams to locate and document countless bugs. Do the developers not fully know what their engine does? Yup, they most definitely do not. Hell, combos in 2D fighting games exist because of this very fact!
I’m sorry but some of you speak as if you’re talking of behalf of the entire KI community. You’re Not. So now, I’m supposed to be embarasseed just people some of you point opinions which are otherwise? I never said that KI2 was glitch free. As opposed to KI1, none of the gliches in KI2 were as devastating (Eyedol & Cinder for example). If you play KI1 & don’t find a single flaw, you’re apparently blind as a bat.
You can’t sit here & tell me that there’s nothing wrong with “no throws,” that there’s nothing wrong with the combo/juggling system, that there’s not a single problem with the fact that the game has a completely useless character (Chief Thunder). If you never questioned yourself as to the game being broken, then chance are, you more than likely don’t know a broken fighting game.
People saw the flaws of KI1 & asked Rare for a more diverse gaming engine & they got it. KI2 (while flawed) was a step in the right direction. Same thing happened with Soul Blade. Fans wanted the engine changed & Namco stepped up the game with Soul Calibur.
I suppose you all are right though. I should just be quiet & play a game which I KNOW for a fact (not think) is more diverse.
lol i never said ki 1 wasnt broken. ki is extremely broken. i never spoke of brokeness at all. the game was just infinitely more fun to play and was entirely more interesting gameplay wise than ki2. ki2 is broken as fuck too, but in the most boring of ways, and in a way where balance is really bad. the balance isnt bad in ki 1 atleast. everyone had some bs and tools to compete competently, ecxept maybe thunder. cant say the same about ki2 unfortunately IMHO. id rather play a game where everyone has access to bs, than a game where only 2 characters have bs and fuck up balancing to hell. plus, glitches is what made ki fun.
people can turtle all they want on me in ki 1, they will lose everytime.
Apparently, people aren’t hearing me. People know for a fact that Rare didn’t know everything after releasing KI1. It was their first fighting game & boasted a handful of bugs. I’m not saying that developers know everything, but they do have some logic to their games & aren’t completely clueless. A majority of developers are in-debt gamers as well.
[quote=SaBrE]
snipQUOTE]
Well at least you can identify that KI1 isn’t a flawless game. KI2 wasn’t either. I’m just trying to stress that KI2 took care of some of the problems that the first KI had. The turtling was dumbed down drastically (with a few exceptions, such as Combo connecting with an uppercut whenever you’d attempt an overhead attack).
KI1 wasn’t unplayable in the sense that it was terrible, but in the sense that it mainly consisted of turtling. There are very few competitive match videos, & for the very few that are around on the net, they mainly consist of 50/50 guessing games. Mainly due to the fact that the game didn’t incorporate throws.
This is exactly why KI3 needs to be done. For Rare to analyze & incorporate the points of KI’s 1&2 (& diminish the flaws as well). Even so, KI3 will more than likely deliver something over the top (& unique) that probably hasn’t been executed in the fighting game genre as of yet.
KI2 is just a sad story, they actually tried to make it complicated and deep with ok ideas, but the fact that they really didnt know what they were doing caught up with them
At least the developers had the right mindset with the sequel (regardless of how it turned out, it was an attempt at heading in the right direction).
Developers can make mistakes but correct them in later installments (learn from their previous flaws). Namco did so with Tekken 4 over to Tekken 5. It all depends on how the developer acknowledges & resolves the problem.
Rare’s a company that’s known well for fixing previous game spec problems. This is a prime reason as to why they take so much time in the developing process.
does anyone know of any combo vids for either KI2 or KIgold? I absolutely loved those the NKI/Mike Z KI1 vids, possibly my fav combo vids ever. I really want to see some more, anyone?
on the subject I certainly prefer KI1, man I wish that had been released on the ultra 64 like they said it would. bring on KI3!
what was wrong with ki gold? everyone talking bout one and two whats broken with that one?
Gold was supposed to be the best of both worlds between 1 and 2…its actually funny…give me 2 six button SNES sticks and the SNES version of KI 1 whooped the Ultra 64s ass
Me and a few partners are planning on haveing a KILLER INSTINCT 1 tournament (among other games) around christmas…i think either KYAH or LiquiTed might have videos from S.C tournements from like 94 and 95…the best players were always from florida…for some reasom RARE always tested that game at a bowling alley in I think it was Orlando.
KI gold is simply a N64 port of KI2, with new gameplay modes, shittier graphics, missing animations (for instance, maya’s tits dont bounce by themselves on the player select screen), weaker sound, and minor differences in gameplay (mostly just stuff missing. haha.)
I’ve got a sixteen min combo vid for KI1. If someone could provide me the proper insight as to how to post it, then I’d gladly do so upon this thread.
haha. bowling alley. i remember my local bowling alley in Fort Benning, Georgia was one of the first arcades in the area to get the latest Primal Rage updates. that junx was hotness!
if you got match videos man then hook it up. I am FIENDIN to see some MATCH videos. i don’t even care if they are scrubby anymore.
hmm anyone wanna play the SNES version of KI1 on ZSNES? hit me up
I’ll host it for you, SoaringWing, given your stance on KI 1 and how amazingly good you must be to know everything, it’s got to be better than the one I did with NKI.
No kidding, I’ll host it. PM me.
(^.^)
Mike Z
i say Sabre vs the Wing scrub at EVO for $500.
<---- side-betting on Sabre for a $100. :razz: