Rufus has an enormous hurtbox, and a lot of his game can be stunted by Bison’s s.MK, s.HK, LK Scissors. He has a good walk speed & focus dash, which gives him an awesome amount of pressure.
That’s just my observation when watching the Rufus:Bison match-up.
Bison dosn’t really have an answer to divekick pressure, and that’s because the height where a close range dive beats st.hk is the same height where ex psyco is less effective. Also Bison game plan (in most matchups) is basically to pester people on the ground while staying outside of the range where standing roundhouse doesn’t work as an AA. Rufus is costantly in the air (a proper read on a scissor kick with aneutral jump and Rufus is in) and has the ability to beat AA pretty easily (at least normals) that’s the reason i assumed the matchup wasn’t in Bison favor. Also i said i’m not a bison expert, not that i’m totally unaware of what the character does or what his game plan is, i’m not gonna argue with someone that called me ignorant and whose only contribution in this conversation was “In my opinion, Bison beats Rufus most of the time.”
I mean Bison isn’t a hard counter to Rufus, but players the likes of Zeus knows it’s better to use Bison than Vega. And I got over theory fighter in 2010. I know you weren’t talking to me, but Bison has great rushdown + pokes + EX reversals. Bison gets more mileage off of a single forward dash than Rufus does. s.HK just dominates space in neutral.
Bison beats Rufus.
ST.HK and St.mk dominates. He needs a random ex messiah to even get things started.
Isn’t this supposed to be a Seth thread?
There isn’t anything Seth related to talk about, he got fucked in the ass, plain and simple.
I had a brief conversation with Seth Killian at Evo2010 when Super was in development. He told me Seth was getting “hit hard” in SSF4 and I told him I would stick with my main even if he’s the worst character in the game.
I’m not going anywhere. When I lose, it’s my fault, not the character.
Anybody that blames the character for them losing is just a shitty player.
At least I haven’t experienced any sudden difficulties playing Ultra Seth. Win percentage is pretty much same, hovering between 75-80 and I’m not even that good. He may not be as good as in AE but at least he is much more fun due to new combos etc. 
Yeah I actually opted to drop my interest in Decapre to refocus on Seth. I mean after all, Poongko still mains him, and I’m all about repping mid/low tier. Since Ultra made Rose top 10 I don’t feel good about using her anymore :lol:
I’ve always liked Seth design and play style but hate his low health.
I recently just decided to try to main him over bison.
Is Seth worth time it’ll take in training mode to learn all of the mix-ups
What’s some good tips to learn to use him effectively
Find some good grappler players to get comfortable and familiar with his zoning game. Never get jumped on. A good Honda I used to play with made me figure out how badly I lose if I don’t DP his jump ins. And since he has such low health, people will want to jump on him that much more. DPs trade more now than they ever used to, so don’t mash DPs otherwise you’ll get a trade DP to whiff DP which could be a free punish for the other player. At the least it’ll put you in a bad position where you’ll have to apply a mix-up or get ready to avoid or counter theirs.
So in the case of a trade DP, just put in the motion + punch once, and if it trades get ready to do stomps. If it doesn’t trade, do the rest of the DP hits when you’re still airborne.
Dash/focus dash in to SPD is one of my favorite tools with Seth since it’s fairly low risk and you can kind of confirm if your grab will work (as in the other player is just sitting there ready to block).
c.MK or c.LK or c.LP or c.MP buffered to firecracker kick is a pretty essential footsie tool. Seth has terrible walk speed so you have to be comfortable with all his normals too. Close HP is a good anti-air especially when people are looking to bait a DP by jumping over you while you’re down.
Yes, he is still worth it. I regularly beat Ryu and Evil Ryu with Seth, so that says something about how powerful he still is as a character.
I also believe that he is much faster overall in Ultra.
Your reasoning for a character being good is always wrong. It’s always x is better because I beat insert character, but yes, he still worth picking up.
Thanks for your subjective opinion that does not matter to me. All opinions are subjective and can be viewed wrong as long as you want to by anybody.
I do not believe any character is better than any character. For the most part it depends on how the player plays the character that determines the performance of the character. It’s like driving a car, a person with a over powered car can lose to a person with a slower car due to player ability.
Then you’re a moron.
End of the day, Seth is still worth picking up. You cannot go as crazy as you used to because you don’t have safe DP FADC forward and his stun on alot of his moves got nerfed BUT in the end seth is still a character with a good forward and back dash with an SPD. His dive kick set ups are still just as threatening because you can still make wake up reversals whiff. However, you must play seth alot more reserved. The addition of delayed wake up means that you have to be alot more conscious when performing Oki.
Agree with pretty much everything you said. You can’t just win by going ham with seth now, you need a good neutral game. Just one thing tho, yes, the dp fadc forward mixup is kinda gone unless you spend 3 meters (its worth it sometimes imo) but using DP against people who love to mash/jump away during your blockstring is still super viable. Just hold down the focus on the fadc for few frames and hitconfirm right after (dash forward into stomps on hit, backdash on block), it’s super reliable and kinda necessary with the nerfs to normal dp fadc. Also after spd, seth oki is still pretty strong. Since the divekick has 12 frames startup, you can go for the regular “safejump” (you need to do 1 less frame of walk after the dash :disagree: ) and divekick on reaction to the technical ( the divekick should start when seth is coming down from the jump). On half the cast this is a crossup divekick setup ( will whiff if they crouch tho). On the few character this doesn’t work you can still go for empty jump low(meaty)/spd mixup.
And btw, on few characters, i’m pretty sure Ken is one of them, regular safejump after spd using j.mk wont cross up (you can still walk a “bit more” to get the crossup, but you’re free to autocorrect dps if doing so). But i’ve noticed that on these same characters, j.hk still does his job of making most reversals whiff, and in few situation, j.lk works too AND hits crossup.
Does Seth have any divekick/safejump (DWU reactable) options after backthrow/forward throw? For example if you land a f./b. throw is there a safe jump then divekick if they DWU option? I tried looking for this in the other threads and couldn’t find anything. Also which characters does cr.mp , st.hp xx hk legs and st.mp , st.hp xx legs work on? It seems like cr.mp works on quite a few but then randomly won’t work on like guile.