fireball:
buff - controlable ex angles, including instant horizontal 2hit via lp+mp
nerf - no longer causes floatstate, which makes airfireball weak and corner expalm weaker
bug - the big new buff, the instant horizontal 2hit, is too slow to be a guarenteed to hit, the opponent can sometimes block the second hit
tatsu:
buff - only launches on hit
nerf - reduced horizontal reach, which makes many combos no longer work
air tatsu:
buff - lower height restriction
nerf - back jump air tatsu removed
nerf - ex air tatsu no longer controlable
kongo:
nerf - moved to qcb+p, making it more difficult to use on defense
stomp:
new move, is a combo continuer and crumpler with ex
weirdness - not enough reach to combo into it after a confirm
actual usefulness to be discovered
flip:
buff - flip throw has reduced recovery
nerf - flip throw is quickrisable, making the decreased recovery pointless
nerf - removed df,d,df shortcut
palm:
buff - lp palm has more reach
nerf - removed df,d,df shortcut, making it much more difficult to use
nerf - removed ex palm tatsu ender
nerf - removed ex palm corner fireball enders
unknown - changed opponent knockdown animations depending on strength, we’ll see how that pans out (mp palm into denjin?)
super:
moved to kick for no known reason
U2:
no longer does wall bounce if a follow up isn’t possible
backthrow:
nerf - no longer an open ended setup throw, now does the same damage as forward throw, and less stun than forward throw
normals:
buff - chain cr.lp into mp
buff - dj.hk is a two hitter
buff - cl.hk second hit can follow juggle, so it’s likely to hit as a twohit AA
nerf - cr.mk is df.cr command move, making it less useful as a crouch tech OS, non-command cr.mk is a cr.lk clone with miniscule increase in hitbox
nerf - f+hk command move which is a less useful copy of a lvl1 focus, making far.hk and close.hk more difficult to use without adding anything you couldn’t do with a lvl1 focus.
nerf - f.lk no longer special cancelable
nerf - cr.mp x hado doesn’t combo at any range
nerf - st.mp x hado doesn’t combo at any range
is that it?
can anybody tell how this is in any way an improvement?
You’re comparing ultra gouken to omega gouken and it doesn’t make sense. He is different, they almost completely retooled every part of his kit for a different function. If you try to play omega gouken like ultra gouken you will be frustrated. It’s so easy to see that the intention is that he is better on rushdown and better on the ground and when he’s inside… his moves launch at shorter angles so that you can keep momentum better after a knockdown. Why launch full screen? That’s not the point anyway. To address some of your individual points though:
Just because you don’t like how it works doesn’t mean it’s a bug. It isn’t supposed to be a guaranteed hit except in the corner. It’s very clear that the intention is just to stop people from focusing through mid range and be fancy in corners. That’s it.
YOu can combo to ultra 2 and super.
If you’re talking about EX Palm->Tatsu then yes that doesn’t work. Do something else. Sweep and heavy palm still work fine.
Really dude? This move is so much better now. It goes through fireballs, crosses up automatically (first hit hits in front, next hit hits in back) and can be done super super low to the ground. It’s also safe on block. There’s no point complaining about not being able to retreat with it.
You use it when you have meter to burn. Lots of character specific shit here, but generally you want to do s.MP, s.MK x Stomp and then either do far MP x Light Palm or FADC forward and to s.MP, c.HP and cancel that into either EX Stomp->Ultra, or do the no meter ender.
There are so many possibilities that I don’t even know where to begin.
General rule: You can only do two normals before Stomp, limiting it to jump-ins or punishes. That’s fine, Palm and EX Palm are for jabs confirms now, they aren’t part of your max damage scenario, stomps are.
For fatties, start with s.MP, c.HP x Stomp. If they are skinnier, do s.MP, s.MK x Stomp. FADC if you want to use meter and get the pain train rolling.
Examples:
s.MP, cs.MK x Stomp FADC s.MP c.HP x Stomp, fs.MP x Light Palm
s.MP, cs.MK x Stomp FADC s.MP c.HP x Stomp FADC c.HP x Med Palm, Ultra 2.
s.MP, cs.MK x Stomp FADC s.MP c.HP x EX Stomp, Utra 1 or Ultra 2, juggle followup
Yes, Gouken’s max damage is harder and less meter efficient than before. But his damage from light attacks is meatier than ever. c.LP, s.MP is just a broken hit-confirm. c.LP s.MP c.HP x any special is just amazing. Meterless Ultras are amazing.
The rest of your complaints are just about his normals being adjusted to accommodate a different play pattern. That’s it. You can’t combo to fireballs anymore, it’s true, but your faster normals are more rewarding in every respect. You didn’t really mention that you can chain almost any light normal into any medium normal. You complained about c.MK not being usable in Crouch Tech OS but I guess didn’t realize that c.LP is faster now (4 frames).
Seems like they just took an older version of Gouken and started to make changes from that. I guess you can argue that the new changes to combos with normals is the reason for the other nerfs, but why? It’s not like Omega mode is supposed to be balanced. Why not just add all of this on top of what we have for Ultra Gouken. Gouken just always seems to get overlooked.
THE NEW LP PALM IS GODLIKE! also, just being able to combo so much out of jab is nuts. the donkey kick is airborne, so thats good. also, mp palm combos into donkey kick for free.
oh ya, so “very clear” when it almost always works, but not quite. It’s a bug, not a feature. and your apologetics doesn’t change it.
we always could, that doesn’t mean removing floatstate from fireballs isn’t a nerf. It’s a huge neutering of his airfireball game.
at less damage. all the "yes, but …"s in the world don’t make it not a nerf.
i didn’t know it goes thru fireballs now. is that just the ex?
as for height restriction, it’s still there. I can jump, and on my way down do qcb+hk right next to the ground and see hk come out instead of airtatsu, while getting the ground tatsu after landing via negative edge. jump in mpxtatsu is still super touchy
good stuff.
the only useful chain from lp to a medium is close mp, and you can only do that after one and at point blank range. Marginally useful i guess.
did you mean cr.lk is 4 frames rather than “c.lp”?
I kinda like the Omega Gouken. He got a lot of things that he should have a long time ago.
Anyway
-You can cr.lp into stomp( i only tested it lp.stomp)
-You can cr.HP into EX Stomp, you can full U1 it anywhere in the screen
-Full charge EX Gohadoken straight causes knockdown on hit( i dont know if it is hard knock or soft)
-You cant combo EX Gohadoken straight in corner, you have to FADC.
-You cant do the EX palm, gohadoken,U1any more.
-Tatsu isnt safe on block, but its is pretty hard to punish tought
I think you can mp.palmxxFADC, U1 any where in the screen, i have to test it later.
These are the things i noticed for a while. Gouken in Omega is a good char, i like it.
i do not like the new omega gouken as well, a lot of good new stuff but also too many limitations and questionable design decisions. he is very different… anyway day1 and so but will probably not play his omega version. but lp senku is godlike, should have it in ultra, but without short cut its really fuzzy…
ryu is also not what i hoped for, but for the moment i really like omega dan, feels like a legit regular char. very funny…