I’m a newcomer and often times im reminded how vast the learning curve in this game is after getting my ass beat by skilled players, often times with god tiers. its like "hey can i move yet? oh no i cant, im still getting combod thats nice. " i still enjoy the game because most people i play are relatively new as well.
as long as the veterans arent bashing noobs for sucking im fine with it.
I’m a relative newcomer. I’ve never done well in a tournament. However, I fucking love getting owned. There’s far more to learn from someone way better, than from someone not as good. After every loss I ask myself “why did I lose?”, “what couldn’t I defend against?”, “what, if anything did I do that seemed effective on them”, and other, similar questions. This is the only reason I’m any good at all. Instead of crying about how veterans beat me, I try to learn from them, and possibly ask for advice. I suggest this to anyone who wants to get better at anything ever.
To the OP and anyone who feels the same way:
I understand where you are coming from, but it about ends there. If you were honestly trying to “help the scene”, TELLING people to do it how YOU THINK it should be done will only get you flamed, end of story. This is a site dedicated to competitive gaming, and you want people to not compete as hard as they can? Not gonna happen. That’s as rediculous as going on a competitive poker site and asking the good players there to “take it easy” by playing rags on bad players, or asking the Lakers to take it easy on the Clippers. First off THAT IS NOT WHY THEY ARE THERE. Second off if they are playing against bad players chances are they will win anyways, so what would be the point of not playing your best other then giving someone false hope.
As far as “killing the scene”, those who quit after a few losses are NOT part of the scene, never were and never will be. It might be more correct to say it’s not helping the scene expand, but I speak from a competitors point of view that I would rather not “expand” this community with players that start playing this game with such scrub mentalities such as cheapness, tier whoring, etc. It’s either game breaking and banned, or use it to get better. This is just my opinion and don’t expect everyone to agree. You don’t have to like it, maybe competitive gaming isn’t for you. But its just as wrong to shove casual gaming on competitive gamers as it is the other way around. No one is telling anyone else to “only play to win”. Play for whatever reason you deem necessary, but don’t expect others to follow suit.
Side question for the OP:
Not trying to be negative, but just curious. You were quick to point out that you are not a scrub, but then talk of getting scraped in 30 sec. If that’s not you, were you just speaking up for the scrubs that it happens to? Also you said you like competing, did you mean competing against the best or just against someone on your level. Cause it might be more accurate to consider yourself a casual gamer if you aren’t that serious about actually getting better. Again I don’t question your skill level but hopefully you can clarify, and understand that your statements maybe a little misleading.
I’ve been playin gthis game since the begining and I have no problem with taking a loss, but I hate how the player match lobbys get saturated by God teir player that seem like the style would be better suited for Ranked play.
Its like,. if youve won 10 matches in a row and your about to fight an am, why not fall back to third teir to make it a worthwihle match.
I just dont see what can be learned or where the fun is in getting trapped by gliitches and spam
I understand you may not see the fun in winning with “glitches and spam”. But from the other person’s view maybe they are just trying to get better. Just because an amature can’t defend top tier it doesn’t mean someone shouldn’t use it to try to better their game. To some that’s where the fun is, seeing that they’re actually getting better. The better person they’re playing, the more fun it is. That could be just one of the many sources of fun fo someone, everyone plays for a different reason, just because you deem it not fun it does not mean everyone has to. Plus how are you supposed to know if a person wants you to play low tier? Maybe they want practice against top tier? Again that’s just one plausible scenerio, and your answer of using third tier is only one of the many to the question you have asked imo.
I agree everything Golden Nizmor said with the exception of talking shit. So yeah, regardless if its player or ranked match, I’ll more than likely go all out. If someone asks me something, I’m usually more than happy to answer said question (giving that I have the answer to it). I even tell them if they have AIM to get at me. I consider myself a generally nice guy IMO.
Hi Nizmor.
I like playing against all the Old school guys giving it their all. By watching them and getting beat by them I learn some of their tricks. Hell that’s how I learned about Iron Man’s Infinite, Jill being able to trip someone then launch them into the air, and other things to help improve my own game. Don’t remember who but someone showed me you could juggle into Proton Cannon and well that helped my Iron man’s game a lot.
I’m brand new at this game. I love fighting people much better than me (which is 99 percent of live at the moment) because I learn how to deal with things. I’m already a little more confident in my game and am having a great time and I wouldn’t want anyone to go easy on me.
I have played Marvel games sporadically since they came out and I used to get a little pissed at god tier antics. I then learned their patterns and things have gotten MUCH easier. While I know fighting god tiers with middle tier characters I use is an uphill battle, it is worth it when you finally knock a really good player off. Just recently I beat a really good Storm Sentinel Cable player using charlie lol. That moment made all of the other shit I had to eat worth it!
Its more difficult than that…
Simultaneously, you and your opponent are picking characters. So, you dont know who theyre gonna pick, and they dont know who youre gonna pick. THATS why you have Magnetos versus Akumas or Sentinels versus Wolverines. And with that said, use the patience to look at who theyre picking, then pick your characters to counter it. But people could care less who their opponents pick, theyre focused on their selections.
But, on the other hand its a free country, they admire those high tiers (understandable) They may be scrubbish with high tier, so its not that bad. Everyone can choose who they want to choose, theres no need to complain about mismatches, unless it becomes too repetitive.
In closing, if you feel inferior to a higher tier, then just be straight up with your opponent, and tell them you intended to have a lower tier match. They most likely will understand and respect that, and rematch you with lower tiers.
I dont really sweat who they pick I just play with the team I am practicing with in the moment. Also this player had 9 victories in a row in a decent room and was one of the better players Ive seen. It was just one of those matched where I countered everything perfect. It was so sweet :smokin: Im looking forward to more of those!
lol. then he obviously wasnt good. who else was on your team to pull that out? i have scraped decent players with my low tier, but thats because i have a one hitter quitter team on team super. so if i touch you once, bye bye, or at least 90 percent is gone, or your assist is killed. thats how i get away with beating top tiers with my team. plus im not bad myself, but still.
“Maaaaaannnnn!!!, that guy always picks Magneto…”
LOL…
I think one issue is that new players feel that god tiers aren’t as hard to win with–they think it’s the god tiers winning the match and not the skill.
… but the scrubs can pick god tiers, too. Why don’t they? Let’s see if the god tier makes them win.
Secondly, in the realm of teaching we have what we call the affective filter–the emotional side of learning. When people are too worried about something unrelated to their learning, they become less receptive. Mistakes are okay, but with a high affective filter, people avoid mistakes so much that they do nothing at all and never improve. This happens with a lot of scrubs. They get too caught up on winning and never test things, or they get too caught up in what they can’t do and don’t try to figure out what they CAN do.
This affective filter might be raised when they get their asses handed to them.
But… someone can still learn when that’s happening, so part of the control is going to be an internal trait.
So what is this that causes a person to fear losing? Ego…
Take ego out of the equation and these scrubs will learn a lot more. The problem with scrubs is that they feel they don’t need to get any better and have some misguided belief that they should be winning without evolving as a player. That’s the difference between a scrub and a nub.
nub = someone who is new
scrub = someone who feels there is no reason to get better and feels entitled to winning without the effort put in to get better. Also tends to blame losses on external forces and not on one’s self, e.g. “You’re cheap,” instead of, “You beat me because you’re better/played better.”
Nubs have hope, but scrubs are doomed unless they change.
The best thing a scrub can do for himself is to check his ego at the door. He’ll learn faster and also won’t piss the vets off. They need to approach this as a learning opportunity/not be worried about losses as opposed to winning. Top players like to win, but they get there and stay there through constantly improving and adapting, not by simply willing themselves to win.
Now, a teacher can help accelerate student learning often by keeping a low affective filter (read: relaxed environment that’s not threatening). There are numerous ways players could facilitate the growth of nubs. However, there are two issues here; 1) until there is an online practice mode, I don’t see this happening at all, and 2) you’re mistaking random opponent’s for caring teachers. Top players and all opponents are still learners themselves. They have little or no interest in sacrificing their own learning/skill development for yours. That’s what a player generally is doing by dumbing their play level down–sacrificing his own learning (you can develop some nasty bad habits by doing this, actually).
Advice to scrubs (and nubs before they become scrubs): Check your ego at the door and look for chances to improve instead looking at the match as the reward of a win or punishment of a loss. Perhaps that’s why I stick with games and end up trying and testing crazy new crap–my personality type is that of people who seek progress and improvement or learning over some other definable goal. Learning and improving is it’s own reward, more valuable than any win/loss record.
Dude its marvel, u could not block one move against neto and be out for the count
^^ Incredible post Murakumo.
A word to people who are coming up in the game late in the life cycle: REJOICE.
Having an online marvel, for all its imperfections, is an excellent opportunity for improvement. Training mode is one thing, but getting real match experience 24/7 can’t be beat. This match experience is exactly what I’ve been missing-- I’ve been playing heavily off and on since '06, logging hundreds of hours of training mode over the years, and although I learned how to EXECUTE infinites, combos, and high level techniques, my lack of competitive play time put a damper on my overall improvement.
I had the skills, but not the smarts in other words. I went to Evo this past year and had a crash course/trial by fire in competitive play, and while it was a great time, I’ve easily improved ten-fold by just playing a few weeks of Marvel on XBL. If you use it as a learning tool, its really the best resource for improvement around.
For me at least If I get my ass handed to me I ask the guy for tips or how he did something in particular. Most people will be reasonable and tell you. If they seem cool and helpful I send them a friend request and ask them to spar with me when they can. This guy beat me 20 times in a row and since I have started playing him I am winning a games against him now and picking up knowledge on the way. Where that really shows is in matches against players that arent as good as him. I just don’t lose that many of them anymore regardless of tiers they pick and thats definitely because of sparring this guy. He plays so smart it forced me to adapt and do the same to compete.
Jimmy the guy was good but he was relying on zoning with cable AHVB’s and Sent Drones and cap com anti air to keep me back and do damage. I use Charlie Guile and Cyclops with anti airs saving meter for Cyke unless I can link together Charlie Guile Supers to kill their best character. The key to beating him was I played Charlie pretty inspired that match. I stuffed him in the corner and used cyclops to keep him there and when he blocked I used Charlies kick throw and (for once) nailed his continuing throw combo. With Cable gone Sentinel vs Guile is not that bad of a matchup especially alternating my anti air assists to keep him out of the sky and I threw his big ass whenever I got the chance. The match was even except health wise excpet I had Cyclops with a 5 Full Meters. I brought Cyke in and kept punishing him with his guided laser super when he would put an assist in. Eventually he ended up with just cap com and versus a healthy cyclops and Guile he wasnt much. I am not saying he was great but he was one of the better ones I’ve played online so far since it came out on live.
And of course he disconnected immediately after I won.
I think you guys are kinda misunderstanding what hes saying…
Some people play the game for fun (basically), and others play to get better. He may fall under the category of wanting to get better, but feel its a uphill battle to get there. You all may say “EVERYONE HAD TO DO THAT!!!” Yeah, thats true (including me), but its more complicated than that. Say youre picking your team (low-tier), and your opponent is picking theirs (high-tier). You dont realize that theyve picked those characters until youre about to start the match, which is kinda a issue with high-tier vs low-tier. You grunt at how you know they’ll beat you down, cause they have the superior team. You suck it up, and play for pride (lol), but you wished that the match would be more even. Now, the first match is okay, cause both players didnt realize the matchup until it started. If the better player decides to continue playing with those characters against low-tier, then he becomes somewhat of a hot dog. Of course, theyre still up, and the loser continues to play him, but he can easily walk away, or wait for better competition. Good players often do that, theres no need to continue playing if scrubs or people who arent as good as you are mainly playing. I personally play low-tier sometimes at the arcades, because there a group of people who dont play high-tier, so its a even match for them. I know you guys have experienced the “Ahh man, here he comes with MSP or MSS, why he want to play me? He could go play over there, but he comes right over here, where the not-so-good players play”. Yeah, thats common in the arcades… So, its not as simple as it seems, there are a lot of factors that are at hand when low-tier and high-tier clash.
First, maybe I’m missing something, but is there an option for me to leave the room without quitting the game from the PS3 menu?
Next, wouldn’t it be more humiliating to be beaten by a bad character than a good character?
Third, everyone can pick the same people. Often scrubs blame their losses on another person using a better character. If they feel it’s their character’s limited tools that are leading to their defeat, and not a discrepency in player level, then it’s already that person’s fault for picking a shitty/limited character in the first place.
A winning team doesn’t have to come from a pool of 4 top characters–I use Dhalsim/IM/Sent. Only one of mine is in the top 4. I am using a team that works well together and can frame kill from Dhalsim’s stuff. People don’t have to buy into the picking top 4 thing, but they should sure as hell buy into the creating a team with good synergy thing!
Why pick from the bottom half of the cast? You can pick plenty of good characters who aren’t in the top 4, or who are at least usable. Blackheart/Strider/Doom is an example of a team that works well together and doesn’t have a single character from the top 4.
Don’t expect to win if you’re not willing to improve.
We’ve been playing nine years. Scrubs are lucky to be able to get their progress in online. Seriously, would you expect someone to pick joke teams at an arcade when you’re putting in money? I wouldn’t be surprisied if I’ve put a grand or more into all the time I played MvC2 in arcades, tournaments, and invested in sticks, consoles, games, etc. just to play it. The nubs now have no clue how lucky they are to be able to play and test against many good players FOR FREE, not having to put up another 50 cents every time they lose. Then for some reason they’re madder than ever.
I keep picking Dhalsim/IM/Sent most often because I want to improve my execution and reaction. That 30-second combo I’m doing to you is my practice. I’m not going to trade my learning opportunities for yours. You have the opportunity to learn while playing me if you don’t get impatient. Learn to block, learn to get out of block patterns, learn my patterns, look at my patterns, and then try to counter them and hope you didn’t just get baited. Blocking is an important part of the game–learn that first. If you are expecting to win against an easier opponent for this ‘fun’ of yours, play arcade mode. Why bother with competition if you don’t want to get better. If you play and get mad when you can’t win with what you’re doing, and don’t focus on improving, THEN YOU ARE A SCRUB. Get better at blocking, learn better combos, learn guardbreaks, learn unblockables, learn infinites, etc… even learn a new character if you need to, but focus on improving!
There’s no reason to believe we should waste our time for you. We learned and we got better by putting in time and taking our beatings. We think you should do the same. If we were at an arcade, we could not change our characters for you, so why would we at home. You should just be happy that you’re not losing your money. If I’m running a room, players find me by my name, so I’m not moving. If you are tired of getting smashed by Dhalsim, it’s your job to leave, not mine. And no, I’m not just gonna let you hit my Dhalsim because if you catch him once he’s prolly dead.
Tiers and character “cheapness” are relative. I think I have given some people serious Dhalsim complexes, while others might find him a fun or easy fight, depending on teams and skill level. If someone uses Juggy to smash someone’s whole team in 15 seconds, people will say “Juggs is cheap,” And if someone wins with Anakaris infinite, “Anak is cheap.” Cyke inf = “Cyke is cheap,” Strider infinite from counter,xx,orbs tele vs. Sent block string on a nub sent = “Strider is cheap.” A scrub will always blame a loss on external forces. If you think your character is handicapping you, SWITCH CHARACTERS. You don’t have to pick MSS–look at me. Pick some chars you like who are ALSO good.
If you’re gonna play guile, play guile. Don’t blame your losses on the other players’ characters–I lived in Japan a year and while I only played a couple times, I saw some pretty crazy Guiles… hint: THEY DO NOT WHORE NORMAL JUMP AND GET PWNT BY AN AAA ASSIST EVERY 5 SECONDS.
I tried to be civil, but perhaps scrubs never get it. If you’re not trying to improve, you get no respect. We don’t care if you’re new or you suck, but we hate people who want to win without improving and QQ moar when it doesn’t work out. If you’re not up to improving and learning, go back to practice mode, else I’ll just have recharge Sent’s energy stores on the tears of scrubs.
Careful note: Just because you are new or not good does not make you a scrub. Complaining about losing without trying to learn to beat something does. Keep learning, kids!
I agree…
I dont know what type of guys you all play, but people where I play rarely complain about high tier superiority. They just suck it up, and battle. Of course, they could be considered scrubs, but their attitude sure isnt one of a scrub. There are two types of scrubs, the complainer, and the warrior. The complainer usually cries how he loses to someone who is better, trying to provoke them into a actually fight, because of their frustration. Then theres the warrior scrub, who no matter how bad he is beaten repeatedly, he continues to fight, until he has gotten better, gaining respect in the process. Usually, the complainer isnt actually a true MvC2 gamer, they just play when theyre stoned or intoxicated, looking to cause problems (from my personal experiences). I played this guy in the past, and he initially was complementing me on my combos and such. But after a couple of matches, he pushed me off my stick, trying to make me mad. I pushed him back, and we got kicked out of the arcade. Ive never seen him again, meaning he wasnt a real gamer. Im not saying that all scrubs are like that, but a lot of them are just playing to play, not to learn or have fun.