Old/New Characters Hit Box Diagrams + Drag N Drop Theory Fighter

[Fulaani]

that is the standing hitbox at the top of each page. i didn’t want to include it in every move to reduce the clutter

I know it’s up there. But that’s not what I’m getting at.

What I’m getting at is that the animation of a move sometimes pulls the character back, or pushes it forward. reducing or extending the range respectively. If you don’t know where the character starts out it’s unclear how far an attack reaches in front of him. Like for example Blankas cr.mp vs cr.hp. I know personally that cr.hp has more range but the sprites make it very ambiguous if you don’t know where blankas center is.

A snapshot on a different stage or different part of a stage doesn’t help determine it.

[papasi]

I know it’s up there. But that’s not what I’m getting at.

What I’m getting at is that the animation of a move sometimes pulls the character back, or pushes it forward. reducing or extending the range respectively. If you don’t know where the character starts out it’s unclear how far an attack reaches in front of him. Like for example Blankas cr.mp vs cr.hp. I know personally that cr.hp has more range but the sprites make it very ambiguous if you don’t know where blankas center is.

A snapshot on a different stage or different part of a stage doesn’t help determine it.

You need an animated gif in that case.

Originally I thought about uploading all the videos to youtube.
But each of them is ~1.2G big so I gave up.

[Fulaani]

nah don’t need a gif. just the one frame before he does the attack. like this.

http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/blanka/crstrong.html

it gives you a reference of what the center of blankas sprite is and gives you a definite answer of how far the move reaches. without knowing his center in a neutral state you can’t tell this.

anyways, i dont wanna press too hard, its not THAT big a deal.

[oldschool_BR]

Just as a sidenote

[media=youtube]NFQBRrlaLf4&#t=6m02s"[/media]
[media=youtube]9Fz4KSA9-LQ&#t=3m30s"[/media]
[media=youtube]Q6YWmQ_aakE&#t=5m55s"[/media]
[media=youtube]_fZJP27VWzw&#t=6m09s"]Whiff throw trick 4 (fake [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvYQCWRX5h0&#t=1m17s”[/media])
[media=youtube]lvYQCWRX5h&0#t=7m21s"[/media]

[blitzfu]

Yes, that’s what i want to. does anyone know if there are invincibility frame data out there? i dont think t.akiba has it.

if anyone can help out on this, it would be awesome.

IDK about O.characters, but YBH has invincibility and airborne data for all N.characters. I use NKI’s YBH translation pic.

what is the concern? they are not like this in HDR?

They are not like that in SUPER TURBO. You have O.Ryu’s close Short and Forward like this, but it should be like this. And N.Ken’s far Short is incorrect.

i already have pointed out this issue in the hitbox mode thread. the lua script generating the hitboxes has 1-2 frames delay.
for moves that stay in animation for at least 3 frames, i can just move to the last frame and still capture the hitbox w/ animation in sync.

but for move that only stay for 1 frame, the animation and the hitboxes are off.
there are a few cases in my jpeg capture. the fierce dp is one of them. however, all the hitboxes are still correct, it’s just the animation is out of sync.

Ok cool, thanks for that.

i hear you dude. i already did that for all the N chars. I’ll update old ryu/ken’s DP later

Awesome bro, thanks again. Just to recap, you only have N.Ryu’s Jab Shoryuken and N.Ken’s Jab and Fierce Shoryuken. Whenever you get to it is cool, take your time. = J

[Born2SPD]

Nice job capturing all the hitboxes!. Theres some really interesting differences from Old to New Characters, like chun’s diagonal jump kicks or gief’s st.RH… I was thinking, to capture the frame data from Old chars, the “advance to next frame” feature from fba/mame could be used (just saying, if this was missed). Also, it looks like you forgot the Boxer’s Kick super.

[zaspacer]

i already have pointed out this issue in the hitbox mode thread. the lua script generating the hitboxes has 1-2 frames delay.
for moves that stay in animation for at least 3 frames, i can just move to the last frame and still capture the hitbox w/ animation in sync.

I think this sync issue might be happening for your hitbox for Dictator’s Strong Skull Crusher:
Super Street Fighter II Turbo - Hitbox Diagrams : M.Bison

Strong Skull Crusher

http://www.golden-songs.com/ssf2st/st/mbison/special-6/6_cr.jpg

I think it’s lower left edge is positioned over his belt buckle like the Jab and Fierce versions.

Jab Skull Crusher

http://www.golden-songs.com/ssf2st/st/mbison/special-6/5_cr.jpg

Fierce Skull Crusher

http://www.golden-songs.com/ssf2st/st/mbison/special-6/7_cr.jpg

I would add that tosses can not be teched for reducing damage if the full damage is enough to finish the round, that is, kill the enemy.

Sup, oldschool.

Yes, great bullet point!
Totally forgot that one. :o

• Toss throws cannot be be throw teched if the full damage would be lethal.

I should probably add the damage scaling info as well:
http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#konjo

[oldschool_BR]

Yeah, it sounds good this way. In fact, you know they can try to tech it as in trying to reduce the damage, you can see the character is tossed in a different way due to trying, but it still dies. I have worded it differently because of that, but as it only makes it harder to understand it and it doesn’t really matter the exact way the character moves after dying, I believe the way you have summarized it is fine.

Something has just called my attention: I recall trying to use standing jab to catch on a retreating character would not help if they were retreating no matter what. However, Ryu’s jab is sort of slow, at least for that task. Would not it help characters with very fast recovery on their normals such as gief’s short or Dee Jay’s strong, tough? This woulds mostly useless as Dee Jay has his slide and Gief has his lariats, but those moves have shorter recovery. Just wondering.

Edit: Ryu’s crouching roundhouse is missing its start-up boxes.

Also, are you sure Ryu’s fire hadouken has that stray offensive hitbox at the beginning? I tested it yesterday and obtained the same boxes as the ordinary (blue) version.

Useless additions: when a round ends, the loser can still be hit. The winner, on the other hand, is completely invulnerable! How about loser hitboxes?

Edit 2: I have just checked papasi’s post below. Horrible. As a theory fighter website, a functionality where you select a character against another character and obtain the winner according to tier lists is an absolute must!!! It would simply make GGPO obsolete: you play immediately and do not have to through the hassle of actually entering inputs or dealing with lag.

Edit3: about the post below: Guile’s sobat, O.shotos sweep, Cammy’s cr.forward. Fuck, yeah, dude! What now?

[papasi]

They are not like that in SUPER TURBO. You have O.Ryu’s close Short and Forward like this, but it should be like this.
And N.Ken’s far Short is incorrect.

Yeah you need assume that I’m dumb and spell it out for me man. Now I know what you are talking about

BTW, here is my newest toy

http://golden-songs.com/ssf2st/theoryfighter.html

It is not perfect because my jpegs are not knockout’ed by graphic professional like those in YBH
However, it still does its job if you play with the opacity a bit.

Basically just select two images from above (mouse over image => click add), then just drag and drop around and see how the red and blue boxes interact.

See how it is possible to beat butt slam with sim’s back MP (risky but possible)

http://shoryuken.com/f223/sim-thread-119216/index10.html#post9505982

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8466/80207341.png

or ken’s cr. jab to stop blanka’s super

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/7161/35586967.png

and i’ve seen ryu/ken beating a rising DP with jump fierce in video before, here’s how

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3737/67155155.png

and how easy it is to beat butt slam with a wake up lariat

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7342/34592998.png

and question of the day is, what normal, on the ground move can beat rog’s cr. mk clean?

http://golden-songs.com/ssf2st/st/balrog/crouch-mk/1_cr.jpg

this sucker does that way too often and needs to be punished !! :tup:

[Cauldrath]

Using your awesome new toy: (Unfortunately, since I’m ignoring the point close and far normals come out, this is making the assumption that these can be used at the correct range.)

New Chun: cl. lp, cr. lp, st. mp, cr. lk, cr. mk, and possibly cl. mk and st. lk
New Dhalsim: cl. cr. lp, cl. hp, cl. hk, st. lp
New Ryu: cl. hp, cl. mk, cl. hk, cr. lp, cr. mp, cr. lk
New Guile: cl. lp, cl. mp, cl. hp, cl. lk, cl. mk, st. lp, st. lk, st. mk, cr. lp, and possibly st. hk
New Blanka: cl. lp, cl. mp, cl. hp, cl. lk, cl. mk, cl. hk, st. lp, st. hp, st. lk, st. hk, cr. lk

EDIT: How about something more challenging, like Dee Jay’s cr. mp:

http://golden-songs.com/ssf2st/flop/st/deejay/crouch-mp/1_cr.jpg

For the same characters:
Chun: cr. lp
Ryu: cr. mp
Dhalsim: cl. cr. lp, st. lp
Guile: cl. hp, cl./st. lk, st. mk, cr. lp
Blanka: cl./st. lp, cl. mp, cl. mk, st. lk, and possibly cl. hp, cl./st. hk

[Mizuki]

This stuff is awesome, I’ll take a look at all these things more later when I get a chance. Thanks for all the hard work guys.

[papasi]

About Blanka. His jump forward HP. I used to believe it had two different hitboxes during it’s animation. Am I wrong about that?

just double check tonight. it has only one active hitbox like the one shown.

They are not like that in SUPER TURBO. You have O.Ryu’s close Short and Forward like this, but it should be like this. And N.Ken’s far Short is incorrect.

fixed

Just to recap, you only have N.Ryu’s Jab Shoryuken and N.Ken’s Jab and Fierce Shoryuken.

ok, i uploaded all the hitboxes that are different and ignore those that are the same.

i eye balled this myself but let me know if i’m wrong

o.ryu - all 3 versions of dp have same hitboxes
o.ken - lp, mp version of dp have same hitboxes, hp version hit on frame 1

n.ryu - lp version have smaller vulnerability box, mp & mp version are same
n.ken - all 3 versions of dp have different hitboxes

[edit:
fixed ken’s throw damage. thx osbr
fixed n sagat image. thx ultra
]

[oldschool_BR]

I believe the lower boxes on Blanka’s diagonal fierce have vanished somewhere from WW to S2, then. Or it was just an impression. I am having trouble getting CPS-1 games to work atm. I wanted to see when Honda was eventually harder to cross-up, but could not. In ST, he sort of jumps before getting on his toes, pushing his size box sort of high.

Ken’s ground and air rolling kick throws are listed as doing 1% damage, only.

[ultracombo]

You have tiger knee and Tiger uppercut mixed up in N.Sagat’s hitbox display diagrams.

[oldschool_BR]

Other notes

Ryu and Ken have extended vulnerable boxes on their aerial roundhouses during part of the start-up. Also, one may be led to believe the shotos cr.fwd is pretty vulnerable during start-up, but I believe there is only one frame they get that extended box before attacking.

Sagat’s high tiger has a frame which, apparently, has offensive projectile hitboxes but no defensive (that is, vanishing) ones. Does that mean he can “turn the tide” on a projectile war by perfectly timing that move?

Ultra, I think he has just fixed that. It seems OK now.

[fatboy]

WOW… this totally makes miss the hot days ST. :sad: What a great game!

[ultracombo]

Sagat’s high tiger has a frame which, apparently, has offensive projectile hitboxes but no defensive (that is, vanishing) ones. Does that mean he can “turn the tide” on a projectile war by perfectly timing that move?

It’s best to do that with a low tiger, because a high tiger will usually neutralize a nearby projectile, since his arms are too high to be hit (this helps when you’re getting pressured with fireballs off of a knockdown).

[TelMarine]

this is too awesome papasi, thanks a bunch!

[Fulaani]

I was always told that it was Hondas bear hug that has the most throw range, not his kneebash.

[Ryu1999]

Thanks so much for this toy. Its AWESOME. I guess this explains why O. Ryu can’t jump back RH to stop Dictator Psycho Crusher like N. Ryu can. N. Ryu has a ridiculous hitbox on non-neutral J. Rh, lacking the vulnerable blue box towards the back that O. Ryu has. Otherwise all of O. Ryu’s corresponding moves are the same or better across the board.

Also, its kind of ridiculous how much better O. Hawk’s normals are compared to N. Hawks (except for the added horizontal range on far St. RH)