Awww, why’d they take that double psycho hand animation out from o.dic’s devil reverse. That would have made an awesome win pose.
sup, man? One gotta notice, however, that O.Ryu has some normals which are slower than N.Ryu, being far standing forward the most noticeable example. The thing is very slow.
I think he should immediately get in that animation whenever he jumped in on Guile with a down charge.
Oh my god this is incredible
Fei’s far fierce isn’t listed as special cancellable, but it is.
O Fei or N Fei? According to YBH, N Fei’s far fierce is not special cancellable. Thanks
Nope, but I think cl.fierce can cancel into super.
I’m confused.
So
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you disagree with S that neither O or N fei can special cancel far fierce?
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close fierce is already listed as cancellable into special & super as you said. Are you saying something else?
Super Street Fighter II Turbo - Hitbox Diagrams : Fei Long
I just checked that link, 
old shoto st.mk had like the largest startup of all his normals, it was slower than the hado startup by one frame lol. I think that’s why o.shotos prefer srk for their AA needs.
1.yes, n.fei can’t cancel to special with fs.fierce and o.fei can.
2.no, i didnt check out the list before asking. haa
I’m sorry guys, I thought I’d said O. Fei. Old Fei’s far fierce is special cancellable.
After much discussion with osbr on ggpo, cross referencing YBH, looking at my image captures, and also various people pointing out that blanka’s electricity, Gief’s lariat’s frame data are wrong, we come to the conclusion that T. Akiba’s frame data are wrong.
He has almost 90% correct but for numeric data like frames, accuracy is very important.
Too bad that poor soul was counting frames by using the DC console at that time. If emulator frame by frame pausing was available back then, it could have made his job much easier and the data could be more likely to be accurate.
Since I just copy & paste frame data from T. Akiba, my pages also inherit all the errors that he has.
I’ll probably fix all the new character’s frame data using YBH instead, later…
But for old characters, it’s up to volunteers to help count them and post the corrections.
Or if anyone can communicate in Japanese, send that nigga an email and maybe he’ll mobilize his side of ST fans to fix them.
I have come to conclude (and verify) that the game adds 1 extra frame of delay to grounded normal moves. All other moves come out 1 frame before, and this must have been the reason why they got the start-up wrong for the grounded normals, but not jumping ones or specials. Other than that, it looks like YBH data is mostly correct, but by normals with extra recovery, which are hard to spot and must be tested individually. When I get the time, I will compare the data I got for Ryu and the one from YBH. If they got it right, then we will not have to test every grounded normal of the game for extra recovery.
Just getting started with this awesome hitbox viewer setup… before, I thought the green boxes were just a vertical line, without width, but maybe because in fb traps some chars have a harder time jumping up over fb’s than others eg dictator? ie not just his jumping speed which may be slow like honda’s, but rather, how close the front of his green box is to the fast fb whereas other characters are “thinner” so to speak, ie thinner green box so they can jump the fast fb in a corner, not just because their jumping speed or other factors are better. For the thinner chars they have more wiggle room to move more into the corner? Enough theory, Ima go check this out!
but my main question I’m wondering about, before I do: what determines the direction, left vs. right, when one green box almost exactly gets on top of another green box? (It’s not going to just sit on top of it, in any case). The X centers of each box would make the most sense, but if they never overlap, it “seems” (without seeing the actual boxes) like they only slide slightly left/right but mostly straight down almost.
Akiba probably did not have access to hitbox mode when he made his charts. Many of the errors I saw have to do with him overstating the hitting duration of moves.
That is for sure. All in all, just to make it clear, no-one has the intention of disregarding the amazing job he has done, which has helped and continues to help us for so much time, and took him a lot of work and dedication to the community. Anyway, as expected for such a large job, it could not catch all things. Even with the easy tools we have today it is likely that things would go unnoticed. Particularly, apart from the grounded normal problem, some moves (here for Ryu’s) are listed with smaller recovery. This is really hard to catch, but it has been identified, and there is no reason not to make people aware of it. I also believe if we could contact them, odds are they would have other new things to tell us.
SSF2X is an amazing game and it amazes me that we continue to learn new things about it, even after so many years.
Looks like a green box directly over another greenbox falling down does indeed slide only left or right before falling straight down (or mostly straight down) again. The game plays so fast it’s much easier to spot frame-by-frame.
That blank screen mode (so you only see the hitboxes, not the char sprites) is awesome!
xspr, I am not sure if I understand what you said in the above 2 posts.
So if you cross up and try your best to align the push (green) box so they are directly over each other, the game randomly decide if you are hitting the front or behind? I guess that’s the best ambiguous cross up, right?
I tried to do that sort of stuff in game as well, but as you try to align your character right above the other character, it usually cross up not deep enough and thus even if you hit in air, after you land your 2nd hit won’t connect because you’re in frame disadvantage.
I usually end up getting reverse thrown.
If I tried to cross up meaty enough, I’m usually way on the other side (behind) and it is obvious to block the other way. It still works out ok since the landing guessing game is still in my favor but not as threatening if the cross up also connect.
I wonder if I’m doing it wrong all these time.
BTW, I’m sure you’re bad ass at coding, but there is some tricks if you want to remove the push (green) box altogether. I needed that for capturing the jpegs since the greenbox are distracting most of the time.
If you ever need that and couldn’t figure it out, let me know and I’ll try to post it up and explain a little bit.
Yes, as you said, when you try to land your green push box on your opponent’s push box so that the middle of your push box’s X coordinate is the same as the middle of his push box’s X coordinate. (midway between topLeft corner and topRight corner points). I think this middle point was represented as the red dot in HDR, so basically, get your red dot as directly over his red dot as possible. I imagine it wouldn’t be too tough to modify what’s been done already to make a red dot, or even better, represent it as a full tall vertical line, from bottom to top of screen, even, by modifying the lua script(?).
This wasn’t for practical gameplay yet, I just want to know how the game works under the hood, so yes, as you mentioned, any jump attack that’s done too high risks getting thrown on landing in a real match… I was just wondering whether or not a direct on-top landing, green box directly over green box, actually slides ONLY left/right first before falling down, or falls more “diagonally” so to speak. Seeing pictures of the boxes sort of answers my question before I tried it, but seeing it for myself in the actual game made it clear. As for Dictator’s example of him getting trapped in a corner fb trap, it seems other characters have similar green push box widths so maybe that doesn’t matter (I thought maybe he was “fatter in the green” so less wiggle room to escape up, but maybe that’s just because of his jump speed, like slow honda/fei’s).
Also I wonder if throw ranges can be displayed as well, with precise discrete lines (boxes)? Different characters have different throw ranges in terms of how far it extends out (eg dhalsim and honda being the furthest reach out), but what point is it measured FROM? If their green boxes are different, is that throw range being measured from the green push box’s center, or forward edge?
Green boxes do have different proportions based on character:
Zangief has a wider and taller pushbox than Guile. I don’t think it matters if throw ranges are calculated from the edge of the pushbox or from the centre. The real question is, which one did Akiba assign the zero value to: The edge or the centre? I’m guessing it’s the centre, tho I could be wrong.
Hey now that it’s possible to get the hitboxes displayed, I wonder if it’s possible to get other information out of the game too, specifically, to create or generate some statistics over the course of a set of games, e.g. which moves did you lose most often to, which moves did you lose most often to at the end of rounds, etc. It could be written and saved to a file and aggregated after in a spreadsheet. Another example might be, can we tell precisely how much life energy each move takes off (we already seem to know about damage scaling alone, ie a move inflicts 37% off if it’s done at the end of opponent’s lifebar, as opposed to how much damage the same move would do to a full lifebar).
blitzfu, yeah I guess it doesn’t really matter where throw range is measured from, then, but in any case I’d like to see a box/line of how far it extends to, displayed onscreen along with the other boxes.