If you still haven’t learned about this, please go read about the awesome work done by FelineKI, Dammit, and MZK (thanks Xenozip for bringing the news)
YBH is indispensable, but it doesn’t contain hitbox diagrams for old characters.
Using this mamerr hack, I recorded videos for all the old characters and capture the individual frames to jpeg, and create the hitbox diagrams similar to those in YBH.
Here’s a way to Compare side by side
so you can contemplate what move beat what remember to share with us your finding though :tup:
It is a lot of work to capture the jpeg and typing up the stats.
[edit: I now use the frame data from Akiba’s]
For stats, I mostly use the data found in YBH, so the attack and stats might not be all correct.
So I probably need you guys’ help to correct the stats, etc.
It is not perfect because my jpegs are not knockout’ed by graphic professional like those in YBH
However, it still does its job if you play with the opacity a bit.
Basically just select two images from above (mouse over image => click add), then just drag and drop around and see how the red and blue boxes interact.
See how it is possible to beat butt slam with sim’s back MP (risky but possible)
Very nice papasi, if you need O.characters’ frame data, don’t forget to use Akiba’s SSFII data translated by NKI. It’s not exactly O.characters, but it’s better than using just YBH I guess.
Edit: IDK if you’ve got this planned in the future, but having the different strengths of Special Attacks would be good (eg Hawk’s Jab DP), esp considering the invincibility and other frames can change depending on the strength.
Everything is friggin great tho! Thanks for the hard work and effort.
Wow, excellent work! And you started with my two main characters, bonus ^^
I’ve got a pretty good capture rig set up…I’m willing to grab HD stills of all the animations if someone else wants to do the exact counts. (I don’t have near the storage to be doing 1080 uncompressed.)
EDIT: That goes for anything on 360; I realize that many purists will prefer the original ST sprites, but I can do either the new or old HDR sprites in HD if there’s interest. Your stuff looks really good though, so I won’t hold my breath!
EDIT2: Here’s some info for your O.Chun section. Her far standing fierce is special cancellable. Her command forward, the flip kick, has 13 total active frames (5 startup, 5/4/4 hitting, 39 recovery); the first five can combo into the following four and are cancellable, and the last eight knock down. Since it’s slightly faster on startup than the N.Chun version, it’s also very practical to combo off of jump-ins (both hits of the move together do around 26 damage). ST O.Chun also has the ability to do both command forward and roundhouse up-close with both directly toward or away with the corresponding button press, which can allow you to do a few tricks like cancel into her fireball off her flip kick. (It’s her one fundamental difference from SSFII Chun.) Her lightning leg kicks also have slightly different recovery properties. Lastly, her SBKs can knock down on the first hit (where she’s doing a handspring during frames 14-17; the active hitbox N.Chun lacks), and I believe each version recovers six frames faster than her corresponding N. version. As blitzfu said, the translated T.Akiba site courtesy of NKI can help you fill in a lot of these gaps. Keep up the good work!
No way. O.Sagat and O.Honda are better than their N.Counterparts and lots of other O.Characters are competitive. And we’ve seen the Japanese use O.Dictator and O.Blanka in SSFIIX this year. A complete list is useful as all O.Characters are certainly playable and fun.
I think O.Ryu and O.Ken are more about frame data (some normals are worse, projectiles are better), aerial roundhouse (better) and the aerial tatsus (better). Of course, everyone knows the SRKs are invincible. Far standing jab is better on the old versions as anti-air, but not much better. The hitbox is taller but I guess it does not get many uses.
I don’t know about strictly “better,” but O.Honda is definitely a solid character choice. He loses the command throw (ouch) and super (meh), but gains some great normals and a different way to pressure with his HHS.
O.Chun is also a decent pick in a few matches, namely against the grapplers. Her rushdown game is weaker since every poke she throws goes high, but her priority is better in the air with neutral and diagonal forward. She loses her super and upkicks, but her SBKs can knock down and get her out of corners pretty well. She can cancel far standing fierce into a fireball, and her flip kick is actually useful (though that and her knee bash can only be used up-close). Speaking of O.Chun, how does her far standing fierce being cancellable suggest that the move’s start-up is less than six frames, Rufus?
I occasionally pick N.Hawk against loosely aggressive shotos almost entirely due to the longer range of his standing roundhouse N.Sagat…the locals here love playing him for some reason, but does he have any advantage whatsoever over O.Sagat besides cross-up jumping forward and a few more normals he can cancel?
papasi, do you plan on expanding your guide to include the N.character data in the same format? It would be amazing to have such a single comprehensive guide.
From what I’ve seen, there are no hitbox differences between O.Sagat and N.Sagat besides diagonal jumping MK and a smaller hittable area on his punches during a Tiger Shot.
Can someone point out what is the difference between red & yellow frame from T Akiba’s page?
Does blue frame meant that after you land you are vulnerable to throw for x frames but you cannot throw your opponent?
I might overlook but I still cannot find explanation for the green frame below the page.
BTW, I appreciate you guy’s help to correct the stats. Can you guys do one more favor and just use single form like
O.Chun
far-hp special-cancellable
My eyes are already too tired to scan a blob of text and extract information out…
In fact I do, but I really need help from you guys to crop the images. I have spent my long weekend working full time on this and several nights from the past week.
What I want to do is to create a zip file of all the moves for each N char, and upload it to the web.
If you guys have time, download the file, unzip and use a free program to crop the images.
It took me around 35-40 minutes to process one character (cropping the images).
Once we have all the characters up, I hope the side by side comparison can really help us to master the normals.
Many times I see DGV does a standing jab to beat jump-in from the right distance and I’m always scratching my head wondering how did that work…
I also plan to include throw range in each of the throw move and indicate what other throw moves it beat.
I recall there is a page out there with that info. Can someone link me? Thanks.
All moves that hit on or before frame 6 are special cancelable.
All moves that hit on or before frame 7 are super cancelable (I don’t advise trying it in matches though.)
AFAIK the only exception might be Fei Long, but probably not the old version.
You’re sure it’s not standing strong? It’s usually a better choice with Ryu.
Yellow frames are for spinning attacks where the character has their back turned (eg Tatsu, Lariat). Usually that means the red hitbox is on the other side of the attacker.
Yep.
No idea what green frames are for. Which attacks have this?
remember to share with us your finding though :tup:
N.Sagat…the locals here love playing him for some reason, but does he have any advantage whatsoever over O.Sagat besides cross-up jumping forward and a few more normals he can cancel?