great stuff papasi!
About cancelling
Folks, I suggest you check the ST OG x S2 characters thread. Highlights to nohoho’s reply. Other “differences” due to the system explain why O.Ryu cr.short xx shakunetsu hadouken is a 2-hit combo in ST and not in S2, and aerial attack (any), cr.short xx (blue-only) hadouken is a 3-hit combo for O.Ryu in ST and not in S2.
I just added throw range comparison to each of the characters (appended after the throw moves).
It wasn’t obvious to me before but sim’s normal throws actually beat gief’s. I always thought gief has the best normal throws. Also turns out thawk’s normal throw ranges are terrible (only better than feilong).
According to T Akiba, gief’s lp, mp, hp spd all have the same ranges, but we used to believe that lp version has the best range.
Also, I think I read on this forum that chun’s mp > hp, ken’s mp > mk & hp, sim’s hp > mp, etc
while on t akiba’s table, except for balrog, all characters’ normal throws have the same range.
so what’s the deal? who has the definitive answer?
I remember testing it because of a comment from PSF (ggpo player) and coming to the conclusion that all of giefs SPDs have the same range. However I’m not a Gief player and maybe I was wrong.
You could say gief has the best normal throws because he can throw from crouch.
I believe e honda has farthest range normal throws, then someone, then blanka, and then the rest fairly close
Papasi, it would be interesting to differentiate between full and stumble knockdowns, when applicable. Say, sweeps, low punch rushes and such do stumble knockdowns, while flash kicks and O.Rogs straight rush do full ones.
There is one extra information that the YBH does not provide, which is moves with two active parts that do not combo into the other on the same button press. Say, O.shotos close standing roundhouse first attack will combo into the same move when the second active section starts, assuming the enemy is in range. But far standing roundhouse and close standing fierce will not. Such info could contribute to make your website the best ever sf2 hitbox or attack in general source.
Ryu’s neutral jumping roundhouse has another set of hitboxes which was not included: it can hit before the leg is fully extended.
You might want to add a “good luck” comment on Dhalsim’s noggie drawing with running bear grab in terms of range!
The size box is relevant in certain situations. It can show, on wake-up, why some characters are hard to cross-up for a combo (i.e. deep cross-ups) with aerial attacks that are not as good as Dee Jay’s forward kick. Some of them are just tall, even on the ground, while some such as Honda have the size box far from the ground for some moments. But this can wait, I suppose, as there is a lot of shit to do and I am not willing to overwhelm you with suggestions.
Edit: S2 Fei’s hop forward kick is not an overhead.
Actually, they are the same as ST Ryu. But as you play shotos, it looks that N.Ryu is OK because the standing Ryu low hitbox does not cover the foot in the front. I had wondered the same thing, but then I checked normal Ryu and the cr.rh hitbox is just as good. If you can not sweep O.Ryu, he can’t sweep you either.
geo, your table looks very pretty. but it seems to only compare the best possible move (gief command throw spd vs ryu normal throws)
t akiba’s table breaks down all the possible throws in the game.
i think sometime ago i came across your table somewhere on the internet, and come to believe that gief & thawk has the best normal throws (which i was mistaken, in term of range)
so does anyone heard about chun, ken, sim’s different normal throws have different range? i think that was mentioned many times but t akiba said otherwise.
So is all normal knockdowns consider stumble knockdown and all special knockdowns are full knockdowns ?
Will change ryu’s page with the above info later. If you have more about other moves, please share.
Good suggestion. I’ll change all the standing and crouching images to include push boxes.
this is turning out to be such a great resource! take your time papasi.
You seem upset?
Yes, the table only illustrates the best throw/hold of each character (i.e. the move with the largest range).
this is awesome!, downloading.
Thank you!
what do you mean? i said when i first saw that table long time ago, i was mistaken that those are comparing normal throws. not until yesterday i studied akiba’s data and broke it down character by character did i found out i was so wrong for so long. that is all.
i have no idea where that come from…
Well, for what it’s worth, “best” in terms of throw/hold is very situational, relative to what you need. Range is not always the #1 criteria in a given situation.
So having a “fuller” chart that breaks down each throw (including listing and placing both different and redundant button effect variations) gives a more comprehensive resource.
Actually, they’re not the same. They have the same range but N.Ryu’s sweep is more vulnerable due to the extended vulnerable box. Therefore O.Ryu and O.Ken’s sweeps are more buff.
http://img256.imageshack.us/i/ryusweep.png/
Go ahead and make it.
Nope, not quite. Mainly, Rog’s low rush is the exception about special attacks, and a few normals from Chun and N.Ryu’s and N.dictator’s juggle strongs are exception as normals. From the top of my head:[LIST]
[]full knockdowns[LIST]
[]Chun Li’s command roundhouse (neckbreaker)
[]Chun Li’s neutral jumping roundhouse (any active part)
[]Chun Li’s command forward (POS version of the previous move)
[]juggle attacks when hitting airbone
[]most special attacks when hitting airbone
[]last part of tiger knee, cannon drill, spinning backfist, (O or N)Ken’s strong and fierce SRKs, scissor kick, rekka punch (third one)
[]SRKs, heandbutts, flash kicks, etc.
[/LIST]
[]stumble knockdowns[LIST]
[]Balrog’s low punch rush
[]sweeps (most characters cr.rh, Honda’s far standing kicks and cr.fierce, Dee Jay’s cr.frw)
[/LIST]
[/LIST]Note that low rush will do a stumble knockdown regardless of hitting enemies who are on the ground or in the air.
*I have probably missed something
You are right, good catch. I hadn’t noticed it.
Oh my god this is amazing! I’m going to print O. honda’s page.
About 2 years ago wen I started to play this game Valle gave me the tip to keep the stick in neutral instead of holding back. The reason was that your block animation makes your vulnerable hitbox wider.
Can you confirm this?
I’ll confirm it, though I don’t have any video evidence at my disposal currently to demonstrate it. I notice it more on moves like Hawk’s higher pokes over lower characters like Blanka, but it’s definitely present.