U should know all of kens frames and every characters unsafe moves on bock.after that just go look at the moves that give u a hard time.when sumn bothers me I go look at revcovery frames and see if its worth wiff punishing or focusiing or do I jus have to blok the shit lol.but as a ken player u should know frames.say if u playd viper or elf I think they could get farther without knowing frames
Insight, one of the best Kens here in America knows frame data in and out but also has that same unpredictable aspect that makes him so feared. When we first saw him played we thought he was some scrub beating our best players by luck or a fluke. We were soooo wrong lol.
You’re first mistake is judging players by Player Points, those never really matter in the long run. You can’t put a number on someone’s skill. Skill can only be weighed by the performance it displays.
Listen to lilsicx, he pretty much said what needs to be said on the matter.
Thanks for the advice man. That’s pretty much what I thought, you can only get so far without knowing the advantages and disadvantages of yours & your opponents moves it seems. I gotta learn that ish!
I’ve never heard of Insight, will def check him out!
Do you really think that PP isn’t a decent indicator of a player’s skill level as far as online goes Ikaru? I know BP doesn’t mean squat, it just shows that a person has used the character a lot regardless of what their skill level might be. But I’ve always found that the better players are at higher PP levels. Like when you watch the likes of momomchi, kichijyoji, playerjun and ichi…their PP is always at a very high level and conversely I haven’t seen many awesome players with very low PP. True, a player’s PP might be lower as they may use other characters that they’re not as strong with. So I know it’s not the be all and end all, plus you need to see the person in action but overall I’ve found PP to be a fairly good indicator.
Oh I was just giving insight, the player in question is Banana Ken. And those players you named would of course have high PP cuz of their consistent showing in skill in the videos you’ve seen. Alex Valle has like 1000 pp but it wouldn’t be fair to say he’s a bad player because of that. PP can say “This person is pretty good” but you wouldn’t really know until you see them in action in an actual tournament. The top three PP holders on xbox are boosters, so their points aren’t legit at all. But if you just saw the number you’d think “Man they have more points than Daigo or Latif, they must be better than them”. Wrong.
I’ve played multiple players with higher PP than me and still beat them, they played horribly and I wondered how they got that far. Game’s been out online over a year, it’s not hard to believe they’ve just played consistently all this time.
I played online for three days and got 3500pp and 7000bp with Ken only. Played someone with 4000pp and double the bp and he decided I was bad. He didn’t know I knew him personally and I let him act like a fool. He went 0-2 at a recent tournament I couldn’t attend. So anybody can get points but come tournament time its a whole different story.
Yeah you’re right, especially when you consider boosters. I just meant looking at PP in general rather than as an infallible indicator, as of course you need to see someone play to have any real idea of their ability.
And I can only imagine the number of different factors that make tourney playing on a whole other level, hopefully I’ll get there in the future :karate:
So I was thinking about what/how Jwong gets so good at video games and stuff like that, and in light of AE coming out to console soon, I think we should be looking ahead and start forming strategies that counter the stuff that’s going to be good in AE. I remember this is what Jwong did when he first experienced the power of Sentinel in MvC3, he went to the lab and basically formed anti-Sentinel tactics, and I think that’s what we should start doing.
So I’m thinking that we should first start developing strategies against divekicks, with AE comign out there is going to be a wave of twin players, so I think we should focus on that. I remember there used to be a ‘how to deal with rufus dive kick’ video on youtube somewhere, but I couldn’t find it. that and from the little experience I have playing against the twins it doesn’t seem the same. So, idk how to conclude this post, but yeah, maybe that’s what we should start doing. How to counter the ‘gdlk’ shit that AE is going to present.
Dp beats dive kicks nd well placed standing attacks like s.lp s.mp and s.fp I’m sure c.hp would work at some ranges also but dp should beat any dive.now when it comes to meaty dives that’s a whole different story.any1 got info on that?
Block. Don’t crouch tech and pray. Using the cr.hp os tech like you would against Rufus works though. If you set the pace you should rush down but if it’s neutral or you’re sucked into his rhythm you zone him out.
Good to hear,I’m in need of offline play,ill be hitting the arcades to try to get back n shape for la revalations any matchup changes and or new info will be grately apreciated
Didn’t the framedata say Yun’s divekick is -3 on block on minimum height?
@GTF. I thought so too, but every time I try to reversal dp a dive kick it doesn’t come out. I don’t know if I’m doing it right though.
edit: Found notes from the ssf4ae blog.
Though both Yun and Yang have the Raigekishuu (Dive Kick), which they can use as a starting point for attacks in a variety of ways, the hitbox is unusually small, while the hittable box is unusually large. With a simple strategy of attacking with Dive Kick, there’s the risk of the move simply being stuffed, depending on the opponent’s attack.
For those on the defensive side, we recommend countering using moves like light normals with high points of attack, and medium normals with high priority.
? If his Dive Kick is blocked at the head, Yun’s frame disadvantage is at -8 to -4.
? Blocked at the waist, Yun is -3 to +0.
? Blocked at the feet, Yun is at +0 to +4.
Great find man, definitely going to make sure I block dive kicks standing now for better reference. Does this apply to Yang as well?
Hows it going i am trying to take my game with Ken on a serious level and i want to know all of his combos from Ultra 1&2 to tatsu’s to hadokens to whatever but i want to know it all.
Ok, there are a lot of combos, i put some of the more interesting ones that i use:
cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.lp, fp.srk
cr.lk, cr.lp, st.lp, fp.srk (only stand) (can be FADC into ultra1)
cr.lk, cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mk, extatsu (only stand)
cr.lk, cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mk, hadoken (or ex hado) (can be FADC into ultra2 at closest distance)
cr.lk, cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mk, hadoken, super
cr.lk, st.lp, cr.hp, (srk or tatsu or hadoken)
cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.hp, (srk or tatsu or hadoken) (srk can be FADC into ultra1, and hadoken into ultra2 and ultra1 (ultra1 not work on all pj))
cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.hp,srk(1hit), FADC, cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.hp, srk
ex air tatsu into Ultra1or2 (dangerous)
ch.far.st.mp, cr.mk, ex-tatsu (ch = counter hit)
ch.fp.srk, FADC, full ultra1.
cl.st.fk, ex-tatsu (great damage!)
i think that is something to start for.
the top combos in the list are very easy.
My favorite combo is cr.lk, cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mk, extatsu great damage and very easy, i usually plink lk~mk to do cr.mk and this way use the negative return of the game for the extatsu. The problem is that the st.lp whiffs sometimes with some players :S, but you can do cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.mk, extatsu instead (a little more difficult)
Personally I think you’re looking at it the wrong way man. A lot of people make the mistake of trying to get as much knowledge as possible on a character straight away, regardless of whether the info that they’re looking at is aimed at beginner or advanced players. Learning every possible combo won’t necessarily take your game to the next level, as you won’t know when to use which one. Here’s an example
j.hp, cr.lp, st.lp, cr.hp, ex tatsu - 320 damage
j.hp, cl.st.mk, cr.mk, ex tatsu - 330 damage
You can learn how to do both quite easily, but when to apply which is a different matter. The first one is more likely to be a standard b’n’b combo, while the second you might use to combo from a frame trap. There’s no point learning every combo just for the sake of it. You’d be much better off learning a few to real high level of execution and then adding to your skill set. Most Ken players probably only use like 4-5 combos regularly anyways. Plus there are tons of combos that you could learn that look flashy but are impractical/not worth it for the meter usage or for the risk of not pulling it off.
Really all you need is to learn is a tatsu combo, a f.srk combo and to fadc with both ultras. Once you have that locked down, you’ll pretty much start to link stuff together on your own
^
this
i agree with twisted holiday on this he is completely right find a combo you can do consistently, and start implementing them into matches. so do what twisted holiday mentioned in the last portion of his comment to start out.
Where’s this discussion I heard of about ken’s standing lk?
Apparently it’s useful?
I guess you must mean his cl.st.lk. Yes it’s useful as it has the same properties as Ken’s cr.lp (+2 on block, +5 on hit).
The main benefits of cl.st.lk are:
It can be used to option select an EX tatsu behind.
It can look like you are going to go for a kara throw and catch people out as they try to tech it.
You can link cr.hp from it (just like you can from cr.lp).
The problem is that it has 6 frames start up whereas cr.lp has only 3. So even when chained from cr.lk, it’s not quite a true block string as it allows mashed out reversals through.
Peace,
G.
Oh wow, I never knew it’s start up was that bad. I don’t use it much except against teleporters and some backdashers but still.
It sounds worse than it is though. It chains from all Ken’s light attacks meaning that only invincible moves are going to disrupt your block strings. Basically, if you think they’re mashing, stick with cr.lp, if you want to use it as a mix-up against someone who is crouch teching well, then definitely consider it as a viable mix-up.
G.