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Nice video of Ed Ma Ken vs Combofiend Balrog casual and then Ed doing the shoryu air juggle combo demonstration with infinite ex and ultra meter.
Finally made it to G2, bebe!! I only do about two tourneys a week, so it’s been taking me some time.
Anyone else fighting a lot of Akumas in G2?
Buttonswitch
So I’ve severely upped my game by moving around some buttons. I replaced my light kick with a throw button and my KKK with a focus attack. You might be thinking “But what if I need to light kick?” The answer is you still can. Because SF4 is set up to let you option select throw, using the throw button in air or while crouching will still yield a light kick. One big advantage to switching the light kick to throw is now kara throws are suuuuppppppeeerrr easy. Also, due to occasional online lag or just bad timing sometimes throws dont come out. Not anymore. They work 100% of the time. Also ken’s j.lk cross up when blocked easily goes into a throw becauae they are the same button.
Ive stopped whiffing my throws. I finally realized that hitting a crouching person means they are in an unthrowable state. That is often why mixups fail. With the lk button as throw it makes it much easier to jump in, crossup, hit confirm with a jab, and then decide to throw or not because the jab and throw are on top of each other. The bottom line is your mixups stay the same because your j.lk and cr.lk dont change, but your throws become more accessible.
Another advantage is that you cr.lk automatically becomes an option select throw. Because your lk is actually being prodced by throw you OST tech any surprise wake up throws from your opponent.
With focus attack replacing KKK Ive found it much easier to FADC into an ultra because the PPP buton is right above it. Also FADCing out of block SRKs is much easier because fierce is diagnoal to the FA button.
Noob question. How do you safe jump? Every time I try to jump or cross up, I get punish by either an anti-air move, or just simply a kick or punch.
Or better yet…why use Sagat when you can use Chun?! Soon the world will see…
I edited this post myself…because I realize there’s a bunch of things Ken has flaws in…But instead of complaining, you can figure out how to use the things he does have-more effectively. Beating Sagat with Ken feels very satisfying, and I’ve come to really see that the only things I actually WANT for Ken, is a longer focus attack, and target combo to not whiff and push your opponent so far back (crazy kicks would be a better substitute though)
So yeah, take it for what you will, but Ken in the end–IS FINE lol…If you don’t rely on Ultra to win a match, a whole character will open up for you=KENNY BOY!
I’m sorry, but Ken’s never really had a great zoning game, he’s always been an in-fighter. Ryu has always been the one that could zone better than him because of Ryu’s recovery rate on fireballs. The only reason why he was upper tier in 3S is because parrying (if you were great at it) in SFIII almost rendered all zoning tactics useless. That doesn’t mean he’s complete garbage, it just means you haven’t been patient enough in trying to learn how to play him.
Obviously the problem is like what gunslinger has stated before, it is Ken’s natural way of fighting. You have to play about close to 60/40 to 65/35 aggressive most of the time, and you always have to push in with him. Against Ryu and other characters that match up favorably to Ken or evenly with Ken, it isn’t too much of a problem. However against monsters who are better playing aggressive and defensively (IMO, Gief and Dictator), you are going to have to work for your wins. Also giving Ken a command throw is just silly, with that reasoning why not give all shotos some super invincible mode, just because they’re featured so prominently in every SF. His kara-throw isn’t all that hard to master, it just takes PATIENCE to master.
So listen to the players that are obviously more experienced than you, and stop complaining. I’m not saying I’m the most experienced player, I’ve lost plenty of times with Ken and even switched to Gouken before coming back to play with Ken after analyzing what I was doing wrong. It seems to me you just hate losing, and you just happen to have played Ken. Honestly, if you’re gonna complain about Ken this much (which has already spanned to more than one thread in this forum) either switch characters or stop playing the game in general and play 3S.
i was looking at the frame data for the air tatsu’s…
Air Tatsumaki Senpukyaku ( k [in air] )
Code:
lk = 8/*/10/x/x/15/18/50/50/ [10/30]
mk = 7//10/x/x/15/18/60/50/ [10/30]
hk = 7//10/x/x/15/18/70/50/ [10/30]
EX = 6//*4/x/x/15/18/40/50/0
aside from the EX version, is there any other reason you why you wouldn’t use the HK version?
a safe jump is a cross-up jump that you perform on a down opponent. you time it so that as he’s getting up your cross-up mk is hitting him in the back of the head. this leaves him only a few options, he can block, he can get hit, he can try to reversal (i say try because if the safe jump is done right his reversal will miss) or he can backdash. notice none of those things involved him being able to hit you 
Yea, i honestly didnt expect people to be this angry about kens current state in sf4, but i asked a question and i wanted some feed back and i definetly got some. I agree with the poster above, play him or you dont. I jumped to ryu for a bit and I’ll come back to ken, see how it feels to have an eazy ultra.
I see why the top Kens are abandoning the Ken forum.
Why do people insist on posting what they don’t know? :xeye: :wtf:
I edited this post myself…because I realize there’s a bunch of things Ken has flaws in…But instead of complaining, you can figure out how to use the things he does have-more effectively. Beating Sagat with Ken feels very satisfying, and I’ve come to really see that the only things I actually WANT for Ken, is a longer focus attack, and target combo to not whiff and push your opponent so far back (crazy kicks would be a better substitute though)
So yeah, take it for what you will, but Ken in the end–IS FINE lol…If you don’t rely on Ultra to win a match, a whole character will open up for you=KENNY BOY!
I don’t think so…but lk Tatsu is good for mix-up on the ground…lol
I can kinda agree with MagMan on this one. We gotta stop complaining about Ken. It’s kool to have ONE thread about what we wish Ken had… Or even to be silly and list dream changes to make him god tier or whatever… But if we only focus on what he doesn’t have, rather than what he does, we won’t be able to evolve our game at all.
If he is a bad character, then we’ll only be worse. If he’s a good character, then we won’t be able to prove it.
We all know Ken got screwed over in a few areas. He’s the underdog. It only makes us look that much more awesome when we win! 
Let’s try and keep the discussion positive and continue to develop Ken’s game with the tools he has, rather than focusing on what he doesn’t have.
You spin and move slower through the air. Usually meaning that you’ll have a hard time to combo off it.
Ex usually gets 2hits. And a lot of the time an opponent will incorrectly block due to crouching immediately after the 1st. If they stand to block the 2nd hit… harder for them to block the crouching attack follow up.
A frontal jump with changing trajectory of ex to turn it into a cross-up added with 2hits is not easy to block.
Ambiguous cross-ups are very dangerous. Something that should be practiced. A common assault with me is J.exTATSU, cr.mk xxRH.TATSU. One ex bar that could cause a lot of damage. And if it misses - should be able to get away with the whiffed RH.TATSU.
mix it up with a “j.exTATSU, throw”… once they fear it. Gets a knock down leaving you to press the advantage.
My top setups
- f+mk - cr.mk, f+mk, cross-up
- cr.lk - cr.lp - cr.lp, fa2 - ff, cr.lk - cr.lp, throw
- f+mk, cross-up
- j.exTATSU cross-up - cr.mk xxRH.TATSU
- cr.lk - cr.lp - cr.mk xxEX.TATSU, neutral j.mk, throw
- cr.lk - cr.lp… pause… fp.DP xxFADC, ULTRA or Throw on block
When the opponent messes up, ie. whiffs
- fp xxRH.TATSU
- cr.mk xxRH.TATSU (if they are “far”)
I’d use “RH xxRH.TATSU” if was 100% it would connect
Opponent and me low on health
lp.FB xxFADC… charge
Things I’m working on
- kara-FA
- linking cr.fp on hit confirm into RH.TATSU
- 100% cancel rate on 2nd hit of fp.DP (too much time with Ryu creates finger habits)
I once executed kara-FADC-ff, kara-throw. You absolutely fly across half the screen. The 50 other times I tried it got me punished. I don’t yet know if it is flashy or useful. I think a simple dash-in and kara-throw is fine.
so… what is the general opinion on punishers? i know there are the few combos listed in the first post, but most of those require you to be really close to them when they mess up and it also gives them the ability to use a quick-rise after your punishment. so what i have adopted doing is throwing or kara-throwing depending on the distance. my thought process for this is 2fold, 1) it’s a really really simple punish so very difficult for you to mess it up cause of nerves or whatever. 2) the opponent is 100% in your control afterwards. i mean they can’t quick-rise so you can basically set up a safe-jump everytime to really pressure them.
i have found that my opponents start to spam throw tech’s when i’m near them after i do this a few times.
so yeah, what do you guys think? throw as a psychological punisher? or do you think i would be best served ramping up the damage on my punishers?
Great post…and yeah Basara I agree, I’ll keep the ranting to one thread buddy;)
Nice combos up top since I love to get in w/Tatsu–I’ve been working on ways to make it easier to get into, since the timing of Ken’s c.HP is so hard. You can use medium punch, but this is only for if your opponent is standing, if they are, then it’s even easier just to c.lp s.lp HP-Tatsu or c.lp s.lp c.mk-Tatsu. So MP is IMO best used as a poke. It’s quick, and you can usually follow up with c.mk hadou for more damage.
Now, what I’ve been working on to get into Tatsu more, seems to be very useful. It causes one meter–but it’s now become a huge part of my game. I have a few vids on PSN where I think I might’ve pulled it off…I dunno…(Btw this Bison beat me and uploaded the vid!!! I was so pissed off!! I was playing scubby that match I didn’t even realize it was finals!! I freakin owned him the next time we fought, but not my loss is permanently etched into the replays lo…)
anyway, I’ve started to hit confirm with c.mk-hadouken (or c.mp if you prefer) With Ken’s speed, it’s very easy to FADC right after his hadouken, then you just follow up with another c.mk and go straight into Tatsu! If your close you can even go into a SRK. Someone gave me this tip awhile ago, and I just began to use it more effectively.
On cross up, here’s a really damaging combo, that only cost ONE meter!
you jump-in mk–c.hp-hadouken, FADC c.mk tatsu–wait half a second–throw!
It’s freaking beautiful! Many times, players will get frustrated simply because the combo was so long, so after the tatsu, they’ll try to counter, then you just punish.
Or they’ll be shook after that expecting you to continue your assault, so you can continue with a SRK and burn another meter to cancel it just to be safe.
It’s a great tool…add to Gunslinger’s combos up top–you’ll be a BEAST!
btw–@ highlulu, throwing is good, but if your close enough to throw, you should probably do a cl.RH EX SRK…It really really hurts!
Good shit OmniCloud and gunslinger… Going to hit up training mode with some new things to think about.
Anyway, against a defensive player Ken has good mix up game. Playing with fake and real forward HK’s can mess with people on wake up. Recovery after the fake isn’t too bad. Get them blocking and just alter your strings by adding back.MK or fake / real forward.HK’s
Like altering standard c.LK c.LP c.LP c.MK:
c.LK c.LP back.MK
c.LK c.LP c.MK forward.HK
c.LK c.LP c.MK fake forward.HK -> Options!
As for punishing, I think FA -> close.HK HK.tatsu punishes the most. If you have ultra, then FA -> (crumple) HP.shoryu FADC -> ultra does the most damage. If you have super AND ultra, then I think super -> Shinryuken ultra (corner only) is the maximum possible damage Ken can do. It does 600 - 700 or so. Have to check that.
In other cases, close.HK HP.shoryu is the best option if you want to keep your opponent waking up or you don’t want to risk guessing wrong after a HK.tatsu.
@Highlulu, my idea for punishing is that don’t even take messing up as a factor. Assume you will always have perfect execution. Try to always get the maximum possible damage out of your opponents screw ups at all times. Settle for nothing less! Aim for the FUCKING TOP.
being a jerk…