I don’t see how waiting for a genejin juggle to finish is any different than watching the animation of an ultra. Besides, its not like these juggles run out the clock or something, it’s just a longer way for someone to do the same amount of damage many Ultra’s do in the game.
You just don’t understand how zoning comes into play in 3s. I remember playing against MOV and he would never let me get in a comfortable position to set up opportunities to deal damage against him. Just because there isn’t stuff being thrown around on the screen like long limbs or fireballs doesn’t mean players aren’t actively trying to position themselves to control certain zones of the screen. As for people not using P Groove, I consider that more a balance issue similar to character balance more than anything. If thats what makes a game bad to you, I can’t argue that, but I don’t think that’s a very significant factor for judging the quality of CvS2. Especially when you’re making a comparison to SF4, which is minimalist in terms of game mechanics, and CvS2 is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum
Though, SF4 is straight IMO, but, whatever… I miss CvS2, too… even though it can be equally turtley to SF4… ie. A Blanka vs A Blanka spending 15-30 seconds downbacking each other from mid screen.
Good thing you decided to post a valid opinion on games you’ve never played.
Edit: if all you see in high level 3S is pokes into super and parries, you don’t understand what you’re looking at. I’m not a big fan of the game, but, saying that is like scrubs who watch Daigo in SFIV and say all they see is fireballs and uppercuts. lawl
Yeah exactly. With different iterations of SF, emphasis on different aspects of SF changed. That doesn’t mean entire aspects of strategy are dropped though.
I voted for the old games because I’m not really into the new ones(Especially in franchises of games). Some examples:
~ Unreal 1/Serious Sam:TSE > other first person shooters
~ Sonic 2 > Modern Sonic
~ Street Fighter 3 > Street Fighter 4
~ MDK 2 > Bionic Commando 09(kinda similar because of the lots of platforming)
~ Worms/Worms 2 > The other titles of the series
I enjoy modern games too but I don’t like the excessive “staging” and the pseudo-realism the companies put in some of their games nowadays.
Of course old games are going to be better to high-level players. Developers have realized that going easy-mode and adding bullshit comeback mechanics draws in newer players and adds crowd hype, and they’re never going back.
Even T6 isn’t exactly as solid as people think. If any of the Dustloop people here thought my posts on Blazblue were bad, you should read Zaibatsu sometime…top players and other random OGs going on and on about how every Tekken since Tag is random scrubby shit. And they kinda have a point - hopkicks give you 50% combos for attacking at disadvantage and aren’t that punishable, walls lead to easy extra damage and autopilot mixups, and I don’t think the rage system needs any explanation.
That being said, I think it’s possible for games to do the things mentioned above and remain good. SF4 isn’t that far off IMO, T6 still seems good even if you buy into the arguments I just discussed, and even BB would be fine if they made defense less dumb.
Hot diggity damn HadouKid is back anyway look at street fighter 4 a lot of people are sick of the damn ultra’s I mean we won’t probably ever see another daigo comeback or some crazy ass streetfighter 2 comebacks ever again with today’s developers mindsets and marketing . So please believe this will become common place . Also old games are better because their was more research into fighting styles and pop culture now its slap a new mishama here shoto clone there . I mean older games had to come correct because companies where being openingly competitive in games and they had to outdoe each other or die.
I think they were trying a whole lot harder when they were making the older games, which is why many of them are still playable and enjoyable today. SF4 just won’t stand the test of time. I think by the time SSF4 is out no one will want to play SF4 ever, which is much different than in the past where say people will still want to play Double Impact or Hyper Fighting even though there are newer versions of the same series which are available which are not necessarily better… but unique and fun enough that they are all fun to play. But the problem here is that SSF4 won’t be an arcade game, or at least they aren’t planning on it so the series… is screwed a little bit.
You my friend speak the truth. I couldn’t have put it better. I agree with the OGs that every Tekken since Tag is “random scrubby shit”. Sf4 might have these new “casual friendly” mechanics at a low level but at mid to high level play it’s really as good as any of the old street fighters. I used to be a hardcore Tekken player from 2 up till Tag. Then they slowly ruined it. Yes it’s still playable at a serious level but it just plain isn’t anywhere near as great or fun as 3 and Tag for the reasons you mentioned.
SF4 is more a variation of previous iterations rather then flat out better or worse. I believe it is the best current gen fighter at combining the old hardcore mechanics with the new popular stuff.
At least in tekken pretty much every character has access to scrub shit that deals high damage. In sfiv there are the characters that have dumb ass shit that leads to big damage and then there’s a set of the cast that doesn’t have either or. Then on top of that there are just basic tools that the higher cast has access to that the lower cast does not. Then finally the lame ass damage reduction on anything that does more than 2 hits makes playing a lot of the cast and certain matchups kinda pointless.
I mean when it comes to 3d fighters my personal opinion is that vf has the best of all of them as far as the meta game is concerned. Throws that require serious execution to escape keeps the game very offensive considering 3d fighters tend to have slower attacking and throwing frames. Tekken I don’t think is too much more scrubby than any other fighter due to the execution barrier just for basic but important moving and spacing mechanics that must be implemented. Rage isn’t the most perfect system but I prefer it over the ultra system. Mainly because it can only be implemented when the opponent is going to die from one hit. Plus the game is already high damage all around and u can utilize strategies like dropping combos just bfor an opponent is raged than poking or throwing them with something that will end the round bfor they get to use it.
In sfiv the game already has so many systems that help the defensive player and large stages that make turtling easier. Then the ultra system basically gives them the ability to come back at any point during the round. If your opponent knows how to fadc a shoryu (an easily shortcutted/option selected command ) they can just randomly bring things back in the middle of a round. I dunno I just get this feeling like the beginning of wach sfiv round has no meaning or consistency to it. Basically you beating up the opponent is only giving them access to stronger options than what your character is probably capable of. In tekken every character has the random tools necessary to swing things around.
Nothing in sf4 is as retarded as safe little hopkicks that lead into a 50% damage juggle combo on connect. Nor is their anything dumb like getting a ton of extra damage in just because you knocked someone into a randomly placed wall.
All old school Tekken OGs that played Tekken3 and Tag on a serious level back in the day will tell you that Tekken 6 is a scrubby mess compared to what Tekken used to be.
SF4 on the other hand is much more accepted. Yes some people aren’t that crazy about some of the mechanics but I’d say about 80% of the OGs like and accept sf4. Tekken 6 is absolute trash to anyone that played the old ones seriously. Only people that are new to the series or maybe are coming from 5 think highly of Tekken 6.
I believe this is one of the many reasons that Tekken 6 has been a failure so far in being able to compete with sf4 sales and the tourney scene.
Man, you could do this to almost all of the statements in this thread. :lol:
Your point about music is spot on in the 2d games. I miss GGXX’s music. I like the remixed SF2 musics in SF4. I wish Capcom would give everyone their own stage and music in SSF4.
Tekken 6’s failures are mainly due to lazy rushed release of the console port. Shitty netcode is like 75 percent of the reason people in the us held out on buying the game or returning it. Other than that the game sales wise I’m sure still did better in the us than at least half the titles released this year. There was pretty much no way tekken 6 was goin to reach the level of console sales that sfiv did even if everything went perfect.
Ogs not being a big fan of tekken 6 may hurt the tourney scene a bit but that doesn’t still discount the fact that tekken is still the number one arcade fighter in japan and definitely has a loyal new fanbase in the us due to the multi platform release of tekken 6. I guess sf always was the fighting game of america and ono proved it with sfiv. I just know it could be better than it is after playing so many of the other sf games in the past. I don’t find the gameplay as interesting or rewarding as other sf games. Then again I guess that’s how the tekken ogs feel about tekken 6.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in “OGs don’t like Tekken 6.” For one, I don’t believe things just because Seph13 posts it. Second, you have that for every series. 3s people hate SF4. Like Tekken 3/TTT, a lot of OG SF players quit for completely unrelated reasons. If you want to see OGs hating on a game, no where is this more apparent than GGXX -> Blazblue. Hell, look at C3. Accent Core always outdrew every game except 3rd Strike, and it gave 3s a run some months. The last C3 I went to, the one where you hit me with Vipers Ultra :razzy:, Blaz was dead.
What hurt Tekken’s tourney scene the most was the 2 year wait between Japan getting Tekken 6.0 and the US getting a console release. The same places that had strong DR followings have strong T6 followings. At least, this is true in southern VA and TN.