I could only do it after he grabs the wall, but you can drop pretty much as soon as he touches the wall. I dropped flush with the wall a couple of times.
onikage is right. you can drop on the very frame that touches the wall. very easy AA bait
A lot of the other changes sound great, but this is one that just seems unnecessary and retarded. Why did Claw need to get a better walldive game against Blanka and Ken? Why did he need another fake-out for an already very maneuverable move that can already fake out almost the whole cast if you guess right? Heaven forbid you just donāt do a walldive at a stupid time. I want a Claw who gets hit out of walldive or fake walldive to take double the usual damage.
Oh, and does Claw still have storable flipkick?
Edit: and speaking of taking more than usual damage, whatever happened to making Blanka take more damage if heās hit out of horizontal roll?
i hope it didnāt happen!
regarding paul from the gamespot tourney, in some of the interviews they said he stressed how he played alot of snk games vs computer on hardest level, so he has experience with fighting games. someone said he also mentioned to someone that he considered offering to play the final deciding match vs jeff on hyper fighting (they had a arcade setup there), but since the event was supposed to promote sf4 and hd, it had to be either or and he doubted that people would agree to it, or if anyone would even want to see that. but that would have been way old school.
Ganelon: I think Kenās f.DP would hit a fake about 1/2 screen away? That sounds right. Maybe a touch less. I got hit out of my fakes from pretty far away by Kenās DP and Guileās rh.FK. That flash kick is hilarious. Ken would hit just the top of my head as I was falling, so it was definitely a close call. Better timing needed on my part. But if you just tested range in training mode, I think itād be about 1/2 screen.
UltraDavid: I donāt think itās really that ābetterā a game, unless you factor in all three wall options (fake, real, sky high) and Iām not 100% sure that the mixups are going to be as good in reality as they were in my head (it SEEMS like you could mess with an opponentās head with those three to me if you did it right). I think it provides mobility and āget out of jailā type opportunities more than damage potential against Blanka for sure. I did not play against ANY blanka though, so Iām not really sure it has improved against him. Going to the wall against Blanka wasnāt a good idea before, I donāt see it being a part of that match too much now either. Why do you think itāll be better vs Blanka? Just fakes to bait AA? It will definitely be good against shotos who are DP happy, thereās no question about that. I should say that when I read the changes to Vega, I did a little dance. Iāve played Vega since CE, I donāt care about the wall dive knocking down and I obviously LOVE the fake.
No idea about storable flip kick, though I donāt think he lost it. I never do that anyways, and I should.
Blanka could throw up vertical ball every time from certain ranges and locations, and now he has to think about it. That makes it a better game for Claw. Also, Iām really not looking forward to super runaway Claw in Honda v Claw. I donāt think any of Hondaās changes really help him out against Claw, whereas Clawās new walldive bs helps him run from Honda even better.
I guess Iāll quit harping on this, but Iāll just finish by saying that it seems like a totally unnecessary change that, at least in some matchups, seems like it could more than make up for the dive not knocking down.
Is there a video of this anywhere? Itās the change Iām most curious to see. If not, can anyone describe how good the move is/how fast it is/how far it moves and all that? Very curious.
Also, anyone have an opinion on Dee-Jay Uppering fireballs? I never saw it in a video but I saw people try it. It seemed like itās like Hondaās Jab headbutt timing, as in it takes a little prediction to gain some fireball momentum. Even then, how good/useful is it? The change seems beast on paper, but Iām sure in practice itās a little different.
[media=youtube]w9a788RAdO8[/media]
Pretty sure this doesnāt have the rh.FK in it. I hate to keep using āabout 1/2 screenā for my distance, but I think thatās about how far he travels. Maybe even farther. He stays closer to the ground too, so it looks pretty funny compared to how the flash kicks usually look. Seemed very good, but definitely not a move you want to get blocked. Everythingās free after. I really should look it up before I open my mouth, but I think part of that moveās design was as anti-ground? If so, SUPER RISKY imo. But the way it travels, if youāve got those Ume Shoryu skills Guileās got a nice new tool.
UD: You mentioned the two matches I hate most, so I know Iām happy for some extra options. =D
Itās been said that you can keep the fb charge and throw it out immediately after using mgu to cancel the opponents fb. If true thatās really fucking good and at close range deejay is even scarier.
Thanks for the info, folks. I think the fake only further emphasizes the importance of clawās air positioning and timing, which fits his character. Having a half screen leeway on Ken is sweet; now have a couple of tricks in mind to try for when the game comes out.
As for Blanka, with a better recovery, itās possible claw may not even be able to block and counter with a free HP like he used to. If thatās the case, then Iād say Blanka is certainly in a more favorable position for that matchup than before.
I think thatās a tad bit of an oversimplification. We know the double charge thing works, but things that matter are how soon it begins destroying projectiles, how big the window is and how much recovery there is before he can recover and throw out his maxout. Yeah, if itās as simple as it is on paper (perform maxout->Receive bacon), yeah, itās really really fucking good. But I doubt itāll be QUITE that simple (again,like Hondaās Jab Headbutt).
I think the game will be fun. Sirlin and his gang have done a great job! However, I donāt think (due to cirucmstances: timeliines, SF IV, & etc.) there was enough playtime to properly test the balance of all these changes.
When the character/gameplay changes took place from WW to ST, there was a enitre staff, the game was very popular, and tons of playing testing was taking place (at the game centers).
I feeling it is a reasonable assuption that over time, out side of the couple clitches (some influencing gameplay more than others), ST was exactly, or pretty close too what Capcom wanted the final product to be at that time.
Paul for Evo 2k9 champ!
We need some footage of the master in action
Anyone care to take some guesses at this point on who the best characters in the game are going to be?
Having never played the game, here are my guesses: (in no order)
-Chun Li
-Sagat
-Guile
-Blanka
-Dictator
The game sounds like its pretty well balanced overall though.
Wait, someone calling him the master already? I hope that was sarcasm.
I think david is overreacting to the fake dive. It surely could punish players who instantly throw out their fierce srks or upward balls (lol) as soon as vega touches the wall. But both moves hit on frame 1, both moves can be delayed and still work. You can literally just have some patience and wait for vega to come within range in the air where even if he faked he couldnāt escape the hit. Itās just all about adapting. I just donāt see how the fake dive would kill their antiair game vs the dive. If they HAD to throw it out instantly to get the hit Iād understand. But they literally can wait and react.
Yeah, Iād like to see some of that Gamespot footage soon. Someone already mentioned that they are doing a 6 part series on the tourny but when does it start is the question?
As for the HDR final, it was pretty damn exciting. You had Seth Killian doing the play-by-play and you all know heās good at that. Heās going on about how Vega is the counterpick to Guile and New blood vs. old blood, and Guile living in down-back which is what heās āsupposedā to do" vs. Vega. Third round, both players are low on health and Vega comes of the wall only for Guile to AA him with his super for the win and 1000 bucks. There was a a bunch of cheering from the crowd as it was surprising and fairly dramatic. Good Shit! Only thing I can tell you about Paul is he is asian and probably in his upper twenties/thirties.
Question: with his super being really awesome now, does Guile build less meter per special move than he did before?
Well, assuming weāve gotten all the changes, which doesnāt sound like a great assumptionā¦
I donāt think Chun is gonna be that great. Sheās basically the same character as before but worse, and also now she has a spinning bird kick that sounds interesting but not really all that useful. I think Dictatorās gonna be the best. Dude was a very good character with two glaring weaknesses, poor antiair and corner traps, that were both addressed. Heās still just as strong everywhere else as he was before, and then on top of that he randomly gets a new juggle starter in devilās reverse and a fake slide (very odd decisions, in my opinion). Tippy-top tier, Iād guess. But yeah, even though I think some of the changes are weird or unnecessary, I think it looks even more balanced than ST, which is great.
Edit: The fact that Blanka has to wait and consider means the fake wall dive makes the matchup a little more in Clawās favor, and the fact that everyone else, Ken included, has to wait and consider and guess whether to do their anti-dive moves means that Clawās wall dive guessing games are actually stronger when Clawās jumping towards the wall, even if the payout is less because they donāt knock down anymore. Also I think super runaway Claw could be pretty hard to beat for some characters. I just donāt really see why it was needed, I guess, heās still a strong character even without dives and his dives would still be strong even without fakes and knock downs.
Edit again: to Chun_li1, if strong throwās damage was nerfed, then Iām all for fixing that throw recovery. If strong throw still does spd damage, then keep it somewhat (not really) balanced by keeping it risky if teched in certain situations.
@ Sirlin, jchensor, any1 in the know
Has anything been done to Chuns (maybe other charas suffer too from this?) teched throw? In vanilla ST, if characters like Sim, Gief, etc teched Chuns throw in the corner, it was instant 360/720, noogie, etc for Chun.
Very annoying and stupid. If things like hondas super get fixed, Chuns throw ābugā should get some attention too.
chun_li1