Everyone. Seriously the entire cast looks buffed up significantly and not a single character looks (on paper anyways) like they aren’t toptier material. Just look at ryu all he got was a fake fb and he’s a rushdown beast not to mention in the hands of a top player that fake fb can cause mind game headaches for an opponent.
I disagree. They stopped updating SFII because it wasn’t profitable anymore. ST hit right as other fighting games were rising to popularity, and Capcom wasn’t going to be able to sell a sixth update to arcade owners.
As for playtesting, there is NO amount of beta testing that matches what happens on the first day of a game’s official release. The orignal SFII staff missed combos, Guile’s handcuffs, SF staff missed stored glitches, etc. A game never shakes out until it’s been in the hands of the public for a good long while. At least with HD the best players were theorycrafting/testing it. That’s a hell of a lot better than public playtests.
And we live in a time where they can patch out what’s found, instead of rebuying a whole new product.
Only when he touches the wall, but RIGHT when he touches it.
I actually agree. As I said earlier, be thankful it’s been toned down.
Yes. And that makes things worse, because if you do fake wall dive in the corner all day by going to Up-Back, that means you KEEP the Flip Kick charged the whole time as well. So if you bait someone to jump at you then, you can stay on the ground and anti-air them.
Again, be thankful the fake wall dive was toned down.
It looks like Rainbow Edition or Game Genie SNES edition. Really, it does. But you get used to it. Think about how we felt the first time we saw Champion Edition Ken’s Fierce DP.
It doesn’t change the fights much. Just lets him keep up with Fireballs. You can’t do it when the Fireball is too close. But he won’t get much advantage off it. So if you erase it point blank when Ryu throws one, it’s not like you can recover and nail Ryu in delay easily. You can, I believe, but it’s not something you’re gonna bank on, nor is it gonna be that different than blocking it with your own Max Out anyhow.
It’s just an extra option. An extra option he frankly didn’t need. The Wall Dive has never been a bad move in any of the SFII games, even in Hyper Fighting when Vega was shitty. Plus, as I said, it’s an EXCELLENT runaway move now. Zangief has more work cut out for him now. If he corners Vega, Vega can combo Crouch Strong into the OTHER wall and drop straight down. Zangief can chase him and sweep him if he was in the middle of the screen (now, thanks to it being toned down). But if he was closer to Vega when Vega does it, Zangief can’t catch up to him, I believe, and has to chase him into the other corner all over again.
The thing about Vega is that no one really truly knows just how buff his ground game is. His ground game is Godly, just that his Wall Dive game was always better. So no one experimented with the ground game. We saw at Evo this past year, Sirlin counter-picked Tokido by choosing Blanka, but Tokido won anyhow, because he no longer went off the wall and played the ground game… and Vega’s ground game is good enough to beat Blanka’s. Before, I took out Vega’s entire Wall Dive game with Ken, Blanka, and Cammy, and it was still hard to win against him with just ground games. But now, he can use it again.
I believe not. The Tech Throw reaction is universally programmed, which is, as Sirlin discovered, why Holds cannot be Teched… the game pretty much gets hosed when you Tech Holds. So outside of completely writing in new code to handle Teching Holds, there was no way to fix the Holds problem.
- James
James, out of curiosity, what was the previous fake wall dive like? Able to fake it while on the way to the wall? Much faster? Seems great as is, just curious what we (aside from us Vega players) should be glad was changed.
The thing is that someone in Japan DID experiment with the ground game, with great results. The player in question, who goes by the handle of ARG, imposes a sort of honor code on himself: After a knockdown he will go for the walldive, but if he lands it he will never repeat it.
And in spite of that, he is considered one of the top 5 overall players in Japan and was on the winning team in SBO this year.
I have been saying this whole time that Vega will still be great because Remix Vega is basically how ARG always played him, except with a fake dive.
anybody that knows anything about ST, already knows that vega is top tier without walldive heh. its not suprising in the least
Immortalbmw’s claw at mwc08 is a great example of how to play claw without relying on walldive. I was especially impressed with his use of st forward and corner pressure.
The number of factual errors in the last 10 pages of this thread finally made me start writing the rest of those articles, even though I feel just as slighted by things mentioned in my previous post.
James = complainer. Vega is not the best character in the game so there is no problem with Vega. He has more things to worry about from other characters than ever.
have you guys watch this videos. by T. lang posted on the capcom forums. http://www.veoh.com/users/Raiken05
He has ryu’s and guiles ending. If you don’t want to get spoil by it don’t watch them.
can somebody plz put these on youtube, i get the msg that veoh is not available where i live for some retarded reason
There is definitely a caveat to all my posts in that I’m talking about things I’ve seen from the last time I’ve played it, which was fairly a while ago. Lots of things may have changed since the last time I saw it, so I will refrain from saying much more, in case I’m spreding false rumors at this point.
Of course I’m a complainer. No one ever gets anywhere if all people do is agree on everything. It’s my opinion, and that’s all it is. Me complaining about the move is no different than UltraDavid complaining about it. My complaints have no more weight than his, have no more validity than his, and, in the grand scheme of things, have no merit to them whatsoever because the game isn’t out yet and I’m mostly approaching it from a speculative point of view like everyone else on the Forums rather than a “I’m right!” definitive point of view. So at this point, I’m just another complainer on the Forums and nothing more. I think I deserve that right, at least.
- James
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
A tiny group of people in the entire world know what all the changes are and why they were made. Everyone else, including all of us on here, are just going on what we knew was in at one point, what we’ve heard was in, and what we guess was the reason they were put in. Obviously that results in speculation and factual errors.
Not that it means much, but I’m going to have to weigh in on the “Vega wall dive fake” not being that big deal. When I heard that his wall dive no longer knocked down, I said to myself “Ugh”. I didn’t think it was necessary, given all the changes done to the other characters. Coming from an HF background (they still play HF here every single day), giving Vega’s wall dive the ability to knock down was something they did to make that move actually useful (sorry James, that move is garbage in CE/HF against anyone who is awake). True, the increased speed was also responsible, but it was mainly the knock down aspect.
Frankly, I think this was done wrong, though I understand the constraints. Vega was always overbalanced in ST, even if he wasn’t the “best” character, and I blame his flip kick for that. That was move was completely unnecessary and, for his character, badly thought out. Lousy anti-air was a weakness for Vega because his normals and speed made up for it. Giving him the flip kick made him stupid, not the knock down wall dive (after all, Vega had knockdown dive in SSF2 and he was only mid tier). But I guess they didn’t want to take the drastic step of removing the flip kick for fear it would make him too weak. Meh.
That said, repeat wall dive in ST IS stupid. So they took away some of his stupidity, and in the process gave him another option. Overall, I think he’s less stupid now. Gief is gonna hate it, but aside from him, I don’t think anyone else has to worry about it much. And with no knockdown wall dive x N, Vega actually has to think a little more in his matches.
Ok revised statement. James = very helpful complainer. It’s true, somewhere mixed in with his complaining in the past has been some very, very useful feedback that directly resulted in many changes. But he still makes a big deal out of things that aren’t sometimes. 
Trust me, sim will still beating most fools. I mean my sim. :arazz:
ST was very popular in japan. In the US, it wasn’t due to the release of other fighting games. But in Japan, very much so.
When I speak about Capcom, I am referring to Capcom of japan and it development of SF2 in the Japanese market.
I think you are taking what I said out of context, WW was very flawed. But in each version of SF2, the game became more and more tuned. It is not perfect, but each version was better than its predecessor.
Super was not better than HF.
Sorry, but that is completely false! Super is very underrated (if they wouldn’t have slowed it back down I think it would have gotten a lot more play from Americans).
I can’t say much about the Japan arcade scene during that time, you could be right. All I can say is I’d be shocked if Capcom Japan didn’t put out another SFII upgrade if they thought they could have made money out of it.
And I get what you’re saying about balance. But you seem to be implying that SFHD is somehow under-tested versus all previous upgrades. I think chances are good it’s had the best testing environment possible:
Game’s been tested for almost 15 years, everything there is to know is known. That alone makes it pretty unique.
The people making decisions and arguing about the changes are the best players of the game, which I’d guess was not the case during WW->ST.
I guess I don’t understand why you think the people working on it can’t do what the Japanese teams that did it all those years ago. The people working on it now had advantages unheard of for any other fighting game upgrade.
(disclaimer: talking out my ass, hopelessly hyped and optimistic about SFHD)