Pinsir actually has some pretty nice bases for an unevolved pokemon. I was thinking something around the lines of Bug/Ground also, with a boost to his HP, SPE, and ATK base. He’s basically Heracross just without the fighting STAB and being netural to S/R, which makes him kind of redundant to use.
Flareon has been in the doghouse for decade, and he’s going to pretty much be there until the end. I kept saying that it was him that could of used Drought more than Ninetails, and it’s a shame that he still can’t do anything worthwhile with his 130 ATK base. What’s also sad is how his other fire friends can use Flare Blitz and he’s stuck with a messly Fire Fang move, that’s pathetic.
Jynx could use an evolution, but not as bad as some of the others. She needs a bit more help in her SPE base, and there’s nothing that can be done about her bulk.
(“I told you, I was the only worthy starter.” (⌐■_■))
Yeah, Pinsir’s still decent, but it basically got outclassed by Heracross, which I agree is large part of the reason that he’s probably not getting an evolution any time soon.
A Bug/Ground evolution would be nice, but he’d probably just end up straight Bug again looking at Lickylicky, Tangrowth, Electrivire and the highly disappointing Magmortar evolution. (Arceus, why does Magmortar suck so hard? Couldn’t you have given him the Fire equivalent of Electrivire’s speed up ability instead of useless Magma Armor or whatever?)
As such, we’d still be stuck with Wormadam G–ugh–as the only fully evolved Bug/Ground type. The realization of that was more upsetting than realizing we’ll probably never get a Bug/Water type either that’s fully evolved any time soon unless they decide to give Surskit a divergent evolution that’s actually useful like a “sea spider” or something.
Oh well, at least Pinsir got useful Abilities between Hyper Cutter, Mold Breaker and whatever else it has. When compared to them being even more racist with Jynx by giving her Dry Skin (har har), Pinsir still looks great.
Fear my faux combinatorics!
Gothic Tag: Yeah, from what I remember seeing, that thing was basically a more supportive form of Wobbufett with even less offense. So I can’t really say I’m surprised it doesn’t see much use (in OU). Still don’t understand why the hell they thought it would be acceptable even theoretically to give Shadow Tag to a Ghost Pokemon with that much (special) attack power.
It’s Raining Mon: Well, yes. But given that Drizzle seems rather ubiquitous, you could still play them in anticipation of that and have (Wet Rock) Rainy Day on side, no? Not saying it would be the best choice or even a good choice.
Keldeo: Even if Secret Sword is “all” it has that makes it viable, it’s still dumb, especially since it seems extremely unlikely that even if it got Aura Sphere that it would stop using Secret Sword, especially since Keldeo-R needs that to stay transformed apparently. Unless you just mean Keldeo and not Keldeo-R…
Anyway, what exactly can stand up to it if it’s so problematic? By “stand up to it”, I mean less “counter” and more "not “die immediately”. I’m guessing the answer is “nothing” or “very little”, in which case its dumb-ass will be banned to Ubers eventually. (Unless we’re talking about it being that problematic, even in Ubers.)
Mamoswine: I see. Well, more. See more. Heh. Hehehehehehe… (goes insane)
Stealth Rock: Yeah, it needs to get rid of its typed bullshit and either go away after a while or after it hits someone one (without Magic Guard) or both. I wouldn’t mind it becoming absorbed by Rock types either, especially since it’s not just going to up and disappear (unfortunately).
Ah, I see. Well, it’s good to hear you’ve found employment again.
Anyway, yeah, I hear you there. I haven’t really bought any new games in quite a while ignoring the some of the recent fighters. I’ve been more content with playing old games for at least the past five years. Probably longer.
What can outright Counter Keldeo? If it’s Specs or in Rain, very little. Your best shot is to try to get something in there that’s faster, take a hit and go for the OHKO, but that won’t work twice (unless you have Regenerator, so Tornadus T isn’t bad). Or just hope you can guess right every single time it comes out. Things like Vaporeon could come in and take hits, but it has nothing to threaten with (though against a Specs Keldeo, that’s not too bad, you likely can get a free switch afterwards). Keldeo isn’t infallible though, it’s a bit frail and its Speed is only really average. It has to pick a choose spots where it come in itself otherwise strong neutral damage could take it out.
As for whether it would stop using Secret Sword or not, of course it wouldn’t. I’m just saying if Secret Sword didn’t exist, Keldeo wouldn’t be good, but if we had an Aura Sphere tutor, it would live. The whole Secret Sword to stay transformed thing is true, but there are some who still try to pull fast ones with Physical Keldeo sets with it’s awful 72 ATK which makes me laugh considering…there’s no surprise element due to the Form Switching.
I don’t think it will go to Ubers though, it’s an offensive powerhouse that’s annoying to stop, but it’s damn free to Revenge Killers. Terrakion would go before Keldeo.
Jynx would be an amazing check to the majority of the rain sweepers if it had more speed and bulk. Base 35 defense is pathetic.
I’ve had my Blissey OHKO’d by a Specs SOLAR POWAH Charagnathebloodedge :sad:.
The only things that can reliably and repeatedly switch into Specs Keldeo are Latias, Jellicent, Toxicroak, and Amoonguss. Hydro Pump easily 2HKOs resists in the Rain just like Volcarona’s Fire Blast in the Sun. The Calm Mind set is threatening too, but the Specs set seems to be preferred for its immediate power. Fortunately, base 108 speed isn’t as amazing as it was in Gen 4 so it can be easily revenge killed by most faster pokemon if it doesn’t have a sub up.
On one hand, I’d like SR to be Ice instead, since I hate Dragon Types. On the other hand, I’d hate to have Volcarona and Charizard murdering everything.
It’d be cool if they made it an Anti-Air hazard that does 25% to Flying and Levitating Pokemon and 6.25% to everything else.
The “Word other than snip” is my thing, The Damned. Stop it >:(
Oh yeah, I forgot about Amoonguss. Latias and Jellicent get owned by HP Ghost on a predicted switch in. But yeah, Amoonguss is a great poke to deal with the pony. Has Regenerator, Spore and Clear Smog (in case of CM set).
(All this talk of what should have evolved is making me wistful again. Great.)
Dragon types are only really as problematic as they are because for some reason Gamefreak is insistent on Steel, which already blocks way too damn much, and only Steel blocking them.
Of course, changing that would be calling for a typing chart re-balancing, which is apparently too much to ask even though you could probably easily get away with changing only three-to-five things around at the most to make it a lot more fair.
Oh well. Dragons have pretty much been the new RBY-Psychics since Salamence reared its stupid head, though it only got really bad in fourth generation between dumb-ass Draco Meteor, Outrage (and to a far lesser extent, the new [?] Dragon Claw) becoming physical, Garchomp’s troll speed & Sand Veil and, of course, Stealth Rock.
And yet still they obviously have felt that Dragons still don’t have enough since they decided to give Dragonite fucking Multiscale.
I see.
Good 'ol Vaporeon. While, yeah, Vaporeon tends not to kill anything through direct damage (unless someone’s stupid enough to send out something 4x weak to Water against…in the rain), couldn’t Vaporeon just Toxic the shit out of My Little Pony?
Or does the Smooze not affect Keldeo-R for some obvious reason I should be aware of?
Yeah, Jynx could really do with that fake operatic valkyrie evolution that someone put out years ago.
She seriously needs a breastplate to protect her apparently fragile, dry boobies.
Heh. I “<3” that thing. (Too bad it came around only in the fourth generation…)
Sadly, while that still be rather ridiculous for something takes only one-turn of set-up and then sticks around for the rest of the match unless it somehow gets Rapid Spun away, that would still be a lot more fair what it does now.
Make me by changing back to your Mother 3 avatar and getting your penis-like snake out my face.
Yeah, Toxic does work. It’s just against a Choice user, it’s kind of pointless. Keldeo’s probably switching out the second it sees Vaporeon. It’s fine against the CM set though.
Nope, Vaporeon won’t do much to any Keldeo set. As Saitsu said, Specs Keldeo will just switch out if it’s using anything other than Secret Sword, which does 43.9 - 51.9% to 252/252+ Vaporeon. CM + 3 attacks Life Orb Keldeo does 57.1 - 67.4% at +1. SubCM will set up on any defensive Vaporeon without Roar.
Cobra Cock stays until the end of the month, The Damned. You just gotta stop looking like the thing under my name says :arazz:
[quote=The Damned, post: 7275897, member: 1716]
(“I told you, I was the only worthy starter.” (⌐■_■))
Yeah, Pinsir’s still decent, but it basically got outclassed by Heracross, which I agree is large part of the reason that he’s probably not getting one any time soon.
A Bug/Ground evolution would be nice, but he’d probably just end up straight Bug again looking Lickylicky, Tangrowth, Electrivire and the highly disappointing Magmortar evolution. (Arceus, why does Magmortar suck so hard? Could you have given him the Fire equivalent of Electrivire’s speed up ability instead of useless Magma Armor or whatever?)
As such, we’d still be stuck with Wormadam G–ugh–as the only fully evolved Bug/Ground type. The realization of that was more upsetting than realizing we’ll probably never get a Bug/Water type that’s fully evolved any time soon unless they decide to give Surskit a divergent evolution that’s actually useful like a “sea spider” or something.
Oh well, at least Pinsir got useful Abilities between Hyper Cutter, Mold Breaker and whatever else it has. When it compared to them being even more racist with Jynx by giving her Dry Skin (har har), Pinsir still looks great.
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Pinsir was pretty good and thanks to it’s 3rd Ability Intimidate actually could set up with Swords Dance (Back in the day). Mold Breaker was pretty damn useful too because no one I battled cared to research Pinsir until their Bronzong got EQ’d.
The problem with Pinsir is that it lacked the speed and versatility to be something. It was always on the verge of greatness, then Heracross and Scizor (my favorite Pokemon) took his shine.
Bug/Water is a pretty decent typing. They should make a legendary Bug with that typing.
I was thinking about the Toxicroak vs Keldeo matchup. If Keldeo switches out then Toxicroak gets a free sub punch (not on par with Brelooms, but still very deadly). Still, only a handful of PKMN will be able to counter it (especially in the rain), which I’m sure smogon is going to take a hard look at.
Dragons from what I believe are still pretty threatening. Haxorus doesn’t have the movepool as some of the others, but he’s still denting anything that doesn’t resist with banded outrage. Salamence is like Mew, you don’t know what he will do until it’s too late most of time. GF feels the need to keep giving us overpowered Dragons each GEN, with 4 pretty much up there as being Dragon-dominated. If there was some ice variant to S/R it would help big, in fact, there NEEDS to be one at this rate.
EDIT: Jynx is not built for an sort of DEF when her HP is so low. The best route they can go is giving her more SPE since 95 base is somewhat average in today’s metagame.
Oh and yeah I mean the theory Bug/Ground type for Pinsir. I remember when Smogon was actually discussing banning S/R.
Toxicroak’s been OU since the beginning of BW and its counters and checks are still pretty common. I haven’t seen a Sub Punch set, but the Sub Bulk Up set is the most common.
Haxorus hits most Steel types for a decent chunk of damage too. It usually requires sacrificing or severely crippling something to take it out.
Most of the Salamence that I’ve seen recently are Moxie Scarf, which is really annoying to deal with without Ferrothorn. The only reason Salamence isn’t banned like DPP is that there’s plenty of things that can outspeed and OHKO now. I’d still prefer to see him sent to Ubers, though. I’d actually like all fully evolved dragons except for Kingdra, Altaria, Latias, and Druddigon banned.
Edit: I completely forgot about Celebii in Keldeo discussion. Too bad it’s Scizor bait in Rain. Pursuit is probably an easy KO after Celebii takes a Hydro Pump.
Well Haxorus now completely kills Steel-Types thanks to Superpower.
And honestly the Dragons are not that bad, even Salamence. If it even SENSES things like Mamoswine it has to take an immediate exit Stage Left. And Dragonite if anything is something to keep around because it’s actually versatile and encourages you to run different sets, unlike say a Scizor who has a grand total of two.
Oh, haha. For some reason I kept reading “Latias” as “Lapras” since someone mentioned fact that Lapras should have gotten Shell Smash around the same time that I asked about “counters” to Keldeo-R. Thus I was really confused at why Lapras was a counter since despite its Water Absorb its weak to Fighting and thus Secret Sword; I was similarly confused as to why Saitsu had seemingly said that HP Ghost would wreck Lapras given its neutrality to Ghost.
Haha. Good to have cleared up.
That said, fuck Latias. Her brother too. (Not literally. This isn’t horrible, smutty Pokemon fan-fiction.)
The only “likeable” (read: not overpowered) Dragons to me are Altaria, Flygon and I guess this new Druddigon thing. Kingdra’s kinda borderline to me, though that’s more because of its excellent typing and Water types already being overpowered even before they could make it Rain freely. It getting Sniper doesn’t exactly help since even as inferior as that is to Swift Swim, that shit murders people with crits due to Dragon/Water getting perfectly neutral on everything except Empeleon and poor Shedinja.
I don’t dislike Kingdra (or Dragonite, even though Multiscale is dumb) like I do Salamence, Garchomp and Lati@s twins (when they’re in OU) though.
Still haven’t even been any legendary Bugs though, right? Even in 5th generation, Volcarona (?) isn’t really “legendary” as I understand it.
Oh, wait. There’s that Genesect thing, right? …What the fuck is with the thing? I’ve literally heard nothing about it save for Saitsu briefly mentioning. (Question to anyone.)
Much like M.O.D.O.K.'s theme, Defog was made only for trolling apparently.
Which is a shame, given that if it got rid of Stealth Rock, then it would see use despite doing no damage (?). Hell, if it got rid of both Stealth Rock and weather (given the name of the damn move), then it would definitely see use.
Probably because Exploud is an ADHD-prone moron that can’t focus easily if at all while Blissey, even with its spindly pink arms, has proven focus as Poke-medics and is so disarmingly “cute” (read: fat) and weak that no one expects that shit.
No one expects the Spanish Focus Punch Blissey Inquisition.
Genesect is this dope steel/bug legendary that has like 97 base speed and 130 special attack and can run flamethrower/fireblast and boltbeam…
Download ability for 50/50 sp.atk boost…
Excellent typing… I think the only thing that it doesn’t have perfect coverage on is fire type pokemon… and even then it could run hidden power water(personally I’d use the fourth move slot for thunder wave)… from there it could run choice specs(don’t run thunder wave of course) to literally threaten to ohko anything that can’t outrun it…
Choice Scarf is another good choice… only because Terrakion gives EVERYTHING trouble…
The Lapras thing was just a random thought. Nothing to do with Keldeo, lol.
I completely forgot about Flygon, but It’s fine too. Swift Swim Kingdra can still be pretty useful in OU to screw with Rain teams without Ferrothorn (Ferrothorn is a hard counter to any Kingdra without HP fire). I ran a double dance Kingdra on one of my Sun teams and it’s wrecked many Sand and Rain teams.
Genesect is the first legendary bug type. It’s Bug/Steel with Download (raises the attack stat that corresponds to the opponent’s lower defensive stat) and a very respectable special movepool. In DW OU, it’s usually Scarfed with U-turn, BoltBeam, and Flame Thrower. If y’all think Volt/Turn is bad now, it’s only gonna get worse when Genesect is released. Landorus T and Amoonguss aren’t gonna do shit to stop it, especially if it nabs a Special Attack boost.
It learns Rock Polish too, but Scarf seems to be the superior set.
Genesect also has a special move called Techno Blast, which is completely terrible and should never be used.
(A bunch of people have mentioned “Terrakion”. Dare I ask?)
So Genesect is basically Special Scizor? Okay, got it.
What I still don’t understand is why there’s such a seemingly staggered release on these things. I mean, I understand some staggering to keep people interested, but hasn’t BW1 been out for well more than a year already?
Lol. Techno Blast seems so terribly bad. Even worse than poor Glaciate/Frozen World.
As for Kingdra, oh, right. That Ferrethorn thing is also newly resistant to both Dragon and Water. Not sure how I forgot about that, well outside of not playing this metagame or generation at all. Still, it’s rather popular/OU from little I “researched” a months ago and I remember thinking it was one of the more likable visual designs. Also, I generally like Grass types, so there’s that too
Yet I completely forgot it. Hunh. Shows how out of the loop I am.