just in case anyone wanted to check it out. Sorry about the quality. Im assuming the assist is hitting them and im grabbing them on the same frame or something?
Yeah you’re grabbing on the same frame as the hit. MAHVEL BABY. As I’ve said, you can do it with disruptor and command throw and it looks awesome lol.
Sup everyone. Just wanted to say that im back. Took about 6 months off. Got married, traveled, etc. It was fun. Still playing Jill. Thinking about re-structuring my team though with other characters. Ill post if I find anything cool. I know that people have been saying that Jill / Chris isnt optimal, but im going to look into it a little more for fun. I was able to play Marvel during my vacation at various LAN centers and the sort. Was a lot of fun.
How have yall been? Anything new in terms of combos or tech in general? Has anyone found that 750K Jill combo yet? Im still absolutely convinced that theres a practical combo from a hit confirm that can net that damage lolol
Anyways, just wanted to stop by and say hi to my fellow members of STARS.
Woooow congrats dude. This forum has been on and off (mainly off) so you really didn’t miss much. BUT ONE DAY somebody will find that combo… One day…
The legendary 750K combo…ever elusive…
and thanks for the “congrats” !
Welcome back, dude 
Let’s see what you come up with! Also congrats 
First of All, Congratulations to A member of Stars for wedding
So, guys… im trying Jill/IM (Repulsor Blast)/Dante (Weasel shot)… it looks great, but what do you think? You think it would be better with Unibeam and Jam?
maybe is just me that prefer Repulsor over Jam, but Still don’t know if Weasel over Uni
Unibeam>Weasel Shot and Jam Session>Replusor Blast. But what exactly would you use Replusor Blast for with jill? The only useful thing I can see with it is for incoming mix ups and mixs ups for characters getting ready to touch the ground from being in the air. Other then that, I see no other uses for it. And Jam session does exactly that AND More.
Now weasel shot isn’t a bad lock down /horizontal assist, but when you have unibeam which reaches full screen, I don’t see why you’ll limit yourself like that by picking weasel shot over unibeam.
mm I don’t know, It scales almost the same , i just think that Weasel is more safe for the assist. But you are right, i thought that Weasel will help more Jill and Iron man, but I think Jam session will be the best option.
We were having this discussion earlier. Give it a try, see which is better for your playstyle. If you want complete ground control, run weasel with unibeam. There’s no wrong in running it. Besides, Jill doesn’t get much from jam anyway. Oh, one thing though, remember to try out weasel with ironman. It might work out better than jam. I don’t know because I don’t use Dante.
It all depends how your opponent gets hit with Jam session. If they are super jump height, yeah you can’t do much, However, if they get hit on the ground or normal jump height you can do some pretty decent combos with jill. just don’t expect to do a whole bunch of damage though, Jam session scales your damage like no other.
As has been said, Unibeam > Weasel Shot (in most cases), and Jam > Repulsar (again, in most cases).
IMO Weasel Shot is better than Jam for Jill, but Jam is better than Weasel for Iron Man. It kinda depends on who you want to have the better assist, Jill or Iron Man. Repulsar just shouldnt be in there at all for Jill or Dante. Dante and Jill both prefer Uni.
Thanks to everyone for the “congrats”! Very much appreciated!!!
Alright so, I did labwork nearly all day today. Heres what ive come to:
I tested a shit ton of assists, even if the character the assist is attached to isnt a conventionally good teammate for Jill (Iron Fist for example). Heres a list of assists that ive found that give me ground resets that are safe from throws, safe from supers, and the opponent cannot jump out. They are completely forced to eat the mixup, assuming the neutral or back tech, and most people unless they are reallllly familiar with fighting Jill, are going to be holding back in case I drop my combo. A few of these assists even give me safe resets for forward tech too, which is nice.
Heres the list:
Dante - Weasel Shot, Crystal
Arthur - Daggers
Iron Man - Unibeam
Frank – Cart
Storm - Whirlwind
Strider – Vajra
Captain America – Shield Slash
Chris – Gun Fire
There are some other assists that give me good reset options too, but they get beat by mash throw. The ones listed above do NOT get beat by throw or jump…or super. Let us note that I did not test every single assist in the game. Also, these are the assists that DO NOT KNOCK THE OPPONENT DOWN. There are some assists that worked in every aspect EXCEPT that that knock the opponent down, which is less than ideal (Hulk’s Gamma Wave for example). I also tested these using the resets that I commonly use…Im sure there are other reset situations where other assists would work, and im going to work on creating / exploring new reset options tomorrow.
Ill break down my thoughts on each character / assist:
Dante:
Weasel shot is fantastic for resets and block strings. Not much to say about it. Crystal is a very seldom used assist, but it has high durability, reaches a pretty good distance, OTG’s and does good damage. Out of the two I would probably err on the side of Weasel Shot since it comes out so much faster and reaches farther. Assists aside, Dante is a great character in any position and I feel like hes a little underrated as an anchor. By starting Dante on point, it can help mitigate Jills issue with SJ height characters. Also, with my standard Jill BnB DHC to Dante, I net about 880K if done from a cr.M hit confirm. over 900K if done from something a little more situational. I also get THC stuff if Dante is second. Very good chance of him being on my final team.
Arthur:
Daggers are just plain amazing. They come out fast, travel at a good speed, have relatively good durability, do good damage, and dont scale too bad at all. Arthur also allows me a “Safe” DHC into either Bracelet or Kings Armor. XF3 Arthur gimmick too. All of this being said…its Arthur. He gets bodied by run away as well as by people nullifying Dark Arthur by simply counter popping xfac to cancel out chip damage. Being fair, I dont know a LOT about Arthur, and MIGHT look into him more. Its kind of doubtful that he will end up on my final team though.
Iron Man:
Oh boy. Unibeam is Jills best assist. It works great not only as a reset / lockdown assist, but also as a way to help her get in. Iron Man can also deal with SJ height characters pretty well. Iron Man also has a very high damage DHC. Iron Man gives Jill access to a TAC infinite. Alllllll of this is amazing. The bad? If Jill dies, you have to play point Iron Man. I do believe that Tony is better than is commonly accepted…but he still gets destroyed by a lot of characters. Hes just too linear and has a very hard time unless a team is built around him. Kind iffy as to him being on my final team.
Frank:
Fucking Frank West. THE gimmick of UMvC3. Look…we all know Shopping Cart is fantastic, and Jill / Frank is a definite nod to NSR. To be honest, I think I would enjoy this team…but Im very hesitant to play this shell because I know I would put zero effort into leveling up Frank…and I know low level Frank gets bopped. I might look into this more…im intrigued…on top of this, Shopping Cart IS fantastic…but its definitely not Unibeam or Spitfire. It DOES help Jill in the neutral, but it can get blown up on reaction if used too liberally.
Storm:
Surprisingly, Whirlwind works in my particular resets. Whirlwind is also one of the highest durability assists in the game (as a matter of fact, I think its THE highest durability…15 points of low durability). Storm gives me access to a safe and very high damage DHC, as well as a reliable TAC infinite to turn anything into a ToD. The problem is that Whirlwind pushes the opponent away in the neutral, which isnt really beneficial to Jills game. Also, if Jill dies, point Storm has damage issues. Doubtful she will be on my team.
Strider:
Ah. A kind of controversial assist option in the world of playing Jill Valentine. Some people swear by Vajra (understandably) as it helps Jills matchup issues immensely…and some players, notably Paulo, and myself…and apparently SCO Zero, feel that Jill can get along without Vajra. My writeup on this is basically the same thing as ive said before. Strider/Vajra are great for Jill in certain aspects…but I feel that if one elects to use Vajra, it makes her ground game a little less powerful…and there are other ways to deal with SJ height characters. Using Vajra is also rather dependent who the final character on your team is. Personally, I feel like Jill / Iron Man / Strider, is the most optimal JILL team…but Iron Man doesnt make as much use of Vajra as…say…Dante. Strider will always be an option, but its something I will definitely have to put a lot of thought into…I will probably spend more time theorizing / testing with Jill / Strider than any other shell.
Captain America:
Shield Slash actually works for Jills resets and “on block” mixups…but thats about it. He has a pretty good DHC in terms of damage, but not in terms of safety. I dont know much about his TAC’s, but I dont think theyre fantastic. There is some raw tag stuff id like to test, but I dont know if it will work very well. Almost certain that I wont keep him on my final team, but Im not going to say “never”.
Chris:
Chris has commonly been looked at as a poor teammate for Jill in Marvel, and its understandable why. He doesnt have the best assist, he doesnt have good DHCs from Jill, doesnt have great TACs. and has most of the same matchup issues that Jill has. I WILL note that Chris’s Gun Fire assist isnt really as bad as people think. Yes, it gets beat by counter call unibeam / plasma beam…but it beats basically anything else except whirlwind and assists that EAT projectiles like Tatsu, Bandit Boulder, and Dark Hole. Chris also adds a good bit of HP to the team. All in all, Chris isnt TERRIBLE, but hes not really great either. Doubtful he will be on my team.
Honorable mention:
Tron - Bandit Boulder:
Beats any projectile assist. Once that rock is out there, its out there and its not stopping. Has a good damage DHC and has a “safe”-ish DHC. Tron also has extremely high HP and has some pretty good matchups vs certain characters Jill has trouble with (Tron can deal with Hulk better than Jill for example). The only reason Tron didnt make the list is because although the opponent cant jump out of the reset, the opponent CAN mash throw. That being said, I can also mash throw and I will tech the throw, then the assist hits them and I get a combo / mixup.
whew
That was a good bit of typing. I am fairly certain that one of these characters listed will be on my final Jill team. As of now, all of them have a chance…but Captain America and Chris have the lowest chance. There are a lot of other characters ive been looking at for “get in” assists…I will do another write up like this tomorrow night after another full day in the lab.
Thoughts? Is there anything im missing? Any insight into any of the characters listed already?
Hope yall (mostly new players), have found this insightful! I know a lot of this stuff may be common knowledge to veteran Marvel 3 players, but I digress.
This is a good amount of information. I posted a block of text as well, and seeing someone else do the same with characters I don’t play is great.
For me, Vajra helps every single mixup I have, mostly because it tracks. I hardly use it for when they’re up in the air, simply because I don’t have a hard knockdown mixup yet. Perhaps I would try Doom rocks, because I don’t like forward rolls, but in general, it works for all of it. You should try out the assists that knock people down because on a back tech, and if I run log, I can get a reset that is ambiguous on the side I will be on, and when they bounce off the wall, I get a 600k+ combo afterwards. If I can hit that with my assist, I consider it a good reset. However, like I said, if they roll forward I’m pretty screwed.
I really wish Hulks gamma wave didnt knock down on hit…it would be soooo good for Jill lol
So…I tried a LOT of team combinations and character choices tonight. I ran close to 200 matches total. Im going to make a mega post tomorrow.
Brace yourselves…wall of text is coming.
Son of a bitch. I typed this huge post up. Laptop battery died because I didnt realize it wasnt plugged in. Forum didnt save draft. I hate my life.
sigh
Heres a tl;dr of my Jill teammate thesis:
- Plain and simple:
If you are trying to make any attempt at an “optimized” Jill team, you are absolutely forced into playing either Iron Man, or Strider. Pick your poison. Paulo is our exception to that rule. I am completely convinced that Jill MUST have either Unibeam, or Vajra…and whichever you choose says a good bit about what you are like as a player.
2)Taskmaster is actually extremely good for Jill and people realllllly need to look into the Jill / Task shell more (which I plan on doing). He provides a high damage and SAFE dhc. He provides a TAC infinite. He provides a good, durable, relatively slow moving horizontal assist that work well for resets, and is acceptable as a “get in” assist (lets not mistake this for Unibeam though). If you are extra brave, you can set Task to vertical (not parabolic) arrows…it works AMAZING for keeping people from flying around your air space (im looking at you magneto). It works very similarly to Vajra. Better in some ways, worse in some ways. On top of all of this, Task deals well with a good amount of Jills bad matchups (or he at least does considerably better than she does). Task also has very respectable HP, which is always nice.
Amaterasu (Cold Star) is her second most under used teammate. Amaterasu deals with 90% of the cast very well and is a top 5 anchor. She can also provide a safe DHC, as well as a unique DHC that helps Jill immensely when dealing with run away. Shes also got a reliable tac infinite. Lastly, who are we kidding…if anyone blocks Cold Star and Jill is anywhere close, they are getting opened up for FREE. Cold Star locks down longer than any other assist…and…well…Jill just has too many mixup options. God help your soul if you are a big body character.
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I feel that Spitfire Twice is a much better assist for Jill than Bolts. The reason being that Raccoon COVERS HIMSELF. Bolts and Drones dont do this. Strange is also on the screen WAY longer than Raccoon. Drones isnt even an option when it comes to slow moving assists. Hes out for far too long, drones go away if hes hit, and he gets bodied by 70 percent of the cast (and I feel like im being nice by saying 70%). The ONLY thing that drones is good for (better than bolts AND spitfire) is assist+MGS > mixup. If you are fullscreen and do Spitfire + MGS, they have plenty of time to just jump away from the shots. Bolts works, but only the last bolt keeps them there. Not that great. Conversely, the first drone gets to the opponent JUST after MGS ends, which means…no one is blocking your shit ton of mixup options.
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Something that is relatively common knowledge among Jill players, but Ill say it anyways for new people who might come around:
Jill does NOT get along with the top tier characters. Vergil doesnt help her. Zero doesnt really help her. Morrigan is meh (gives you a lot of MGS). Magneto doesnt do a great job of helping her. Doom doesnt really help her. The ONLY top tiers worth of anything to Jill are Strider, Dante (in my opinion, specifically Weasel Shot…I dont think Jam is good for her at all. Vajra is much better for vertical control) and Strange. Dante and Strange are both arguably top tier…theyre not even “for sure” top tiers.
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Jills worst matchups, in my opinion, are Zero, Vergil (on point), Amaterasu, and Hawkeye. I feel as though all other matchups are manageable (yes, including Magneto). All of this is assuming Jill has the right assists. There also might be one or two other characters im not thinking of atm, but yeah. I would also mention Phoenix, but shes too much of a wildcard to place in any list. Too many variables.
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Forget the notion that a Jill team is a “front heavy” team. In some compositions, yes. In most, no. There are a few anchor characters that Jill actually makes good use of. Strider is the obvious example. Arthur, Dante, Strange (he can kinda be put anywhere), Hawkeye, Amaterasu, and even Rocket Raccoon can be a good anchor.
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I firmly believe that Jill is capable of placing top 8 at a major tournament. Much higher than that, I cant say for sure. I would like to think so. Do I think Jill will win EVO? No.
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Jill is absolutely and unequivocally the single best PURE rushdown character in the game…and Chrisis agrees with me.
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TAC infinites (either done by Jill or done with a character in the 2nd slot) are more important for Jill than a large majority of the characters in the game. The reason for this first and foremost is because it gives her the meter she needs to change the momentum of ANY MATCHUP. The secondary reason is…well…she doesnt have to go for a “50/50” reset. A TAC is statistically more likely to work. A tertiary reason, although typically trivial, is that a TAC infinite runs the clock. This can be a huge benefit if the timer is getting low.
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Although they are not the same character, Justin Wong’s movement and approaches with Wolverine can help your gameplay in a HUGE way. In some ways, Jill and Wolverine are very similar characters. They have very similar movement options. Neither have a projectile. Both have to work their way in, then they get to do all the mixup and pressure stuff. The mixup options they have are obviously different and their respective abare is different, but in terms of approaching, they are similar…especially against zoning teams. Yes, Justin has Tatsu to help with projectiles…but its not like Tatsu reaches full screen. We have our own assists to help mitigate zoning. Basically what im saying is…dont just try to arrow kick or super jump your way in. BE PATIENT. Dash > regular jump over projectiles…block the disruptor then dash forward once or twice. Learn how to close the gap without giving them a free way out. Make them work their ass off to get away. I also am referring specifically to Justin because he is without a doubt the best wolverine…he is also without a doubt one of the most patient (and smart) players in all of Marvel. You cant really try to apply Eduardos Wolverine to Jill because…well…Eduardo just goes nuts. You cant do that with Jill in a practical sense. You HAVE to be calculated.
Yeah…so…like I said, this is just a tl;dr of everything I had written down. I had close to 50 bullet points, most of which were lengthy. Maybe if I feel up to it again I will type it out in the coming days…I dont know. As ive mentioned before, some of this may be common knowledge to a few, but I feel that there is at least something that everyone will be able to take away.
either way:
comments, questions, and thoughts are always welcome. Im more than willing to explain why I feel something if you disagree with whatever.
PS:
Im still convinced that we can break 750k with Jill solo from a practical hit confirm anywhere on the screen. We WILL find that combo.
While I agree with most of your points (some are obvious to me and hopefully something we’ve already covered in these forums), I would like to hear your opinion on why you think Jill is a better rushdown character than Wolverine. Honestly, I think Wolverine has more easier confirms into ToDs, and works well with top tiers and has an easier time making it the Marvel 3 formula of “kill, mixup, mixup”. I also feel he can generate a safer, if not more scary abare (I liked that you used this word. VF FOR LYFE) approach.
However that being said, I’m open to the suggestion to try to play it more like Jwong style. In fact, I’ve been trying out different styles of neutral game, so when I go to UCI tomorrow I’ll give it a go.
It’s a shame your computer died and SRK didn’t save it. I would have been really interested in hearing what you were going to say.
EDIT
Thinking about it, Jwong’s and most other wolverine teams run Akuma, which is a good GTFO, lockdown, and otherwise almost hard to hit on startup that Wolverine can convert off of. Jill can never use these assists and even if she did, her combos are so fickle that they’d drop out, or you’d have to cut it short.
There has to be a broken combination somewhere with her and some assist.
EDIT 2
Sorry I didn’t read. I basically said everything you were saying to ignore and to see in a different light. Sorry. I’ll keep this up as a brain dump.
I agree with all your points, also… last day I start to use Cristal + Vajra… its very helpful, cristal have more hitbox than it appears to be, also hits behind dante, so in some ways it can protect you from Strange,vergils teleports. Can also act like a shield versus beams or fireballs like BoB .
When you compared Jill and wolverine, I could imagine Mad beast turn into level 1 and be a Buff like Wolverine’s.
@Draze, yeah, Dantes Crystal is an interesting assist for Jill. It has some good qualities, but I personally think it falls short of being in her top assists because…well…it doesnt do any one particular thing very well. It can OTG…but its slow. It has great durability…but it doesnt reach fullscreen…and its slow…and it doesnt help her matchups against superjump height opponents. On the plus side, it DOES have great durability, it has good lower screen coverage (practically half of the entire lower screen), and it does very respctable damage.
@Lamu
My reference to JWongs Wolvie is much more just about how he moves in general with wolverine. He doesnt go ham. He is extremely patient and works his way in very slowly when he needs to. I think watching his movement and approaches can help any character that works like wolverine movement wise (Wolvie, Jill, Iron Fist, Frank, etc).
Also, as for the whole Jill being better than wolverine…keep in mind that this is in theory. In a practical sense, wolverine is much better (for now). Overall Jill has arguably better ground movement…if someone wanted to argue that Wolvie has Berserker Charge, then we could argue Mad Beast…and theres really not even an argument anymore lol. Jill also has so many mixup options that it makes wolverine look rather…linear. If you block wolverine, you need to basically guess “high / low /(left/right)” Its essentially a three way mixup. Jill has…many more options as im sure you know. Jill also has two things that wolverine simply doesnt have at all…namely Somersault (which helps offensively as much as it does defensively…gotta love Somersault frame traps), and MGS, which is one of the biggest “fuck you, stop doing whatever you were doing” moves in the game. Going hand in hand with her mixup options, Jill has the best resets in the game in my opinion. Lastly, and I know this may be controversial (As well as this entire paragraph to some people), I feel that Jill has better anti pushblock options than wolverine. Technically, any time someone pushblocks you, Jill gets a free low / command grab mixup. People arent doing it because its hard to react to consistently, but hey, theory.
All of that being said, Wolverine does have a much lower execution barrier, does more damage in general (although if we could link 2 MGS the damage differential would be minimal), has a slightly better abare, and in general just doesnt need to think nearly as much as Jill. I believe that in practice, as of this moment, Wolverine is better…but in THEORY, and when Jill players step it up (everyone, including myself), Jill bests wolverine when it comes to taking the crown of “Best Pure Rushdown”.
As a sidenote:
I very strongly believe that Jill CAN use Tatsu assist (and a few other assists) in a very similar fashion to Wolverine…its just a matter of us learning how to properly convert off of those hits, even though it may be difficult and take time.