Have yet to see it done or do it myself but apparently Medium Cent Rush’s hitstun advantage depends on how you space it. A very properly spaced M Cent Rush on a grounded opponent can be linked into a cr.L for a full combo.
Here’s a frame data 101 that’ll apply to just about every game and help convey the point: Attacks have 3 phases: Startup, Active, and Recovery. In addition, an attack that connects has an associated hitstun (when the attack connects) and guardstun (when it’s blocked) To determine something’s advantage or disadvantage, you do the following:
Frame Advantage/Disdvantage = total hitstun or blockstun for the move - remaining active frames - recovery frames. When the guide presents you with data, it merely shows you the active/recovery and the result of this calculation. It -presumably- calculates it based on the attack connecting on the first active frame. This is usually sufficient for most moves given that they only have around 4-5ish active frames (though that said, a normal that’s say, -3 with 5 active frames could actually be +1 if you hit it on the last active frame). However, with moves that have significantly longer active frames, the gaps are much wider. The active frames of Centurion L/M and Nova Strike M/H are -greater- than the frame disadvantage of hitting on the first frame, which means if you were to hit on the last frame/around then, you’d be barely negative/neutral/potentially even positive (Nova Strike L would still be negative but could be made safe). This becomes more difficult to test given that you can’t tell what frame you hit on, but you can use simple tests (like programming the AI to mash on a 4 frame repeatable jab) to determine if you’re in the right ballpark.
An easy way to test this is using something like Magneto’s L disruptor (which has 14 active frames) and a reasonably fast punish (say 10 framesplus) and watch how your ability to punish it changes based on the distance. Human error contributes of course, but the result is clear; the closer to him you get the more reliably you can punish. That’s because you’re getting put into blockstun on earlier active frames, and thus recovering from it before he is.
Small side note, not all projectiles have active frames. In those instances, there’s startup, and then recovery immediately begins. In those instances there’s a fixed blockstun just like the others that then begins once the projectile makes contact. Similar principle, but the frame data is easier to calculate since the hitstun/blockstun can be more easily calculated/verified.
Active frames working like this is the reason something like Doom’s plasma beam is such a pain to punish. It’s +2 when Doom is -point blank-, which means it’s + a lot more when he’s hitting you with them from full screen. That’s why even if your startup is significantly faster on your projectile, you can still get frame trapped.
Great guess and actually it’s also for extra damage. You can press f.H and call assist at the same time since the OTG is technically a normal…just a command normal. the S gives extra swag lol. You can do it with H too. In my opinion. doing the S also makes the timing easier as you said because if you just do OTG + assist and then the Nova strike, you have to time it so you get the hit when they’re brought back to standing by the assist and not when they’re airborne so you can get the crumple. Doing the S makes it easy because you don’t have to worry about timing aside from when you press S so i dont launch them.
You’re also right about the assist + rush thing. It also works with M rush…the same way there is a certain spacing where u can link normals after the L rush hits, you can with the M rush.
^^ Like he said lmao. I’m a training mode monster so I notice things like this.
Random question, how you do the instant ADD l cross up that the top players do? I mean instant ADD l is easy but I couldn’t figure out how to get over them and come down quickly. Do you just do super jump forward and ADD as quick as you can or is there a trick to it like d, u, d for instant overheads.
Real talk I don’t think anyone means to do it when they do it but it happens
Aw c’mon that’s at least 102!
I understand how spacing works in terms of frame advantage but I’ve never broken it down into numbers. It sounds pretty difficult to accurately test. Also, I still don’t see how Nova Strike would be good for frametraps since if it is going to connect on the last few active frames, characters with fast normals can punish it before it even hits. I guess with assist cover this is different, but depending on the assist it could be a pain in the ass to time precisely. Still worth looking into I suppose.
Depends on the opponent’s height. For some characters you can just normal jump forward while they’re crouching, but for Sentinel or Nemesis you’d have to super jump, and that makes it way less than instant. I dunno about the rest of you guys but I consciously try to crossup IADD since my assists allow for it. It’s probably really absurd with Drones or Bolts of Balthakk.
This…is true LMAOO…A true mixup is when not even the person doing it knows how to block
Truth, the super broken looking instant one just comes from doing D, UF, D + L, which is just people missing D, U, D most of the time, it’s pretty hard to get to cross up consistently, you can get a more consistent one with UF, DF and plink MH and then L, but it’s a few frames slower.
OH WORD? really that’s the input? I play on pad so I have the luxury of pressing up and down at the same time (analog and the dpad) lmao…basically allows me to do the D U D variation stupidly fast…now i know the cross up is D UF D?!..Damn…i feel bad for the people im playing in school tmm
It’s all about ballparking; if you can get into the -3 to +something range so you’re not getting punished by non-throws, that’s usually good enough. And frame trapping with it isn’t has hard as you’d think, it’s often just assist call + the move or a variant on that.
You need to normal jump. Get used to dashing, normal jumping, and airdashing down very quickly. That’s what gives you the cross up overhead.
so you do, dash (two buttons), jump (just hold up forward), and plink the overhead (M+H ~ L). Dashing gives you the momentum you need to cross up. Hope that helped.
Yeah
Yeah, it’s not as easy as that to get consistently though, what Marvelo says about carrying forward momentum into it counts for a lot as well.
Thanks. It worked, but its really hard to do on standing characters. I had to dash and then super jump to get over them, which is a little telegraphed. But it could be my bad execution, pressing buttons rapidly (ie plinking and piano-ing) is never my cup of tea.
Yeah, it’s much more difficult on standing characters and pretty impossible on certain characters like Dormammu, Sentinel, etc. Just start going for it and you’ll start getting it.
Welp, got some new tech. Turns out the hard-tag-off-a-throw trick works midscreen too, at least with some characters. You just ADDF and whiff H all while holding your partner’s button, then continue. Who I’ve confirmed so far:
Doom (durr)
Viper
Felicia
Viper can seriously do like 850+ off this just using Nova’s assist, BEFORE DHC’s, and it builds a bar. Video forthcoming lol
thats just…unfair LMAO
Dante can do it midscreen too. Depending on position you can still carry them to the corner in order to do the best combo which involves Sky Dance stuff and extensions using nova and sentinel’s assists.
Frank can OTG off any of the air throws with snapshot/roundhouse, the problem is getting an assist so you can extend. I rarely use the tech myself since I both need Frank leveled and the window is tight for Tools H. Not to mention if I have frank leveled and Nova just got an air throw I’ve probably already won lol.
As promised.
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Hey guys.
I’m having trouble beating haggar with nova.
The haggar i’m playing is backed up by chris.
Any tips?