Topics changed for the most part so i will chime in on this.
Right now, people are trying to overpower each other in tiers, but like deviljin said their are several teams viable at top level play, who can win tournaments. morridoom is falling to skill in most tournaments unless it’s chrisG, who actually doesn’t play what everyone thinks morridoom is. Morridoom in chrisG’s hand is nothing but strategy built around spacing and matchup. The only way chrisG will be taken down is through counter-strategy and skill.
viper, firebrand, taskmaster, and RR have reliable unblockables for vergil. morrigan is tough but her positioning is fairly predictable, which may be susceptible to skrull and nemesis style command grabs (long reach in the air, skrull with long reach on ground as well), not to mention i don’t see morrigan do crouch moves often since her standing L is a low, which makes her a good target for invincible crossover-counter moves (or assists themselves like haggar, although haggar as an assist screams “be careful).”
A proprosed theory from a friend suggests that ironman repulsor blast can out-prioritize soul fists, and it’s hitbox will protect him from astral vision as well - this can be extended with using an assist to attack, like missiles, as the repulsor may cover the assist as well. I would say running repulsor as an assist would work aside from how hard it would be to time the assist call so that the blast comes out before iron man gets hit. Assist method aside, Ironman can offer a team tac infinites and a couple strong assists.
Then theirs the characters who take good care of morrigans right-hand man doom as he’s being called as an assist, such as chris magnum, arthur gold armor javelin, dante DT lightning, zero lvl3 buster, dormammu pillar and forms of liberation, storm whirlwind, hawkeye piercing arrow - and whatever else you can think of that will eat through soul fists and damage him.
Yet everyone screams doom/vergil is the only way to go, and as long as that keeps up, nobody will consistently beat chrisG. i will say this much, as much as i dislike his attitude, F.Champ seems to be the only player who’s attempting a more strategic approach and is willing to step outside his current character base to form that strategy (ECT5 he put morrigan on his team for the assist, without really being able to play her).
I think SFxT looks leagues better than SF4. Have you actually taken a look at SF4 Ryu’s jawline? Or the hands and feet of every female character? Couple that with the ho-hum HUD, and you can see why the game’s look hasn’t aged well.
Love some of the stages though. Great hype animals/people.
Yup. You don’t even need a functioning brain to spectate MVC3. Stream monsters really don’t realize much beyond “he does a combo, now the other guy does a combo.”
At the end of the day, UMvC3 still has the three pillars of what made MvC2 great/competitive.
The sandbox aspect: Once again, we have a game where the engine is “loose” enough for players to keep continuously figuring stuff out. Off course, people will say that Vergil limits the game because of how ubiquitous he can get, but the same could be said for Sentinel in MvC2 Yet Sent never really limited the game, in fact some may say that he made it more diverse since he/it could be used to anchor other teams.
The high risk: Just like it’s predecessor, UMvC3 is a game where one mistake can cost you the entire match. Fanatiq has already wrote about how this worked in MvC2’s favor, suffice to say, it works in UMvC3s favor as well. All comeback characters at 3rd position do is make this more prevalent since it means that you can’t rest on your laurels even if you’re up 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.
The players: MvC2 wouldn’t be what it was without dominant players driving the scene. Folks like Justin, Sanford, Yipes, etc. helped push the scene and make it what it was. We can say the same with UMvC3, I mean, all I need to do is mention Chris G and folks will understand. But beyond that, we have villains like FChamp. We have surprise stories like Kusoru. We got drama coming in from all directions. More importantly, we got folks from abroad like Tokido, Nemo, Kazunoko, Xian, and off course Kusoru picking the game up and showing that is can have global reach (something beyond MvC2, which AFAIK only got played seriously in a few countries, mine included, outside the US).
The hell you talking about, son? SFxT has RIDICULOUS graphic pollution, with flashy block and hitstun effects, extremely flashy gem effects and glows, flashier superpower effects and the most graphically polluted, poorly thought out and distracting backgrounds in any fighting game, ever. Or did you think a game’s graphics refer only to the character models? It doesn’t.
there’s a crude little comparison I put together. See a difference?
SFxT freezes so much online it’s like watching a HD stream on a 2800Kbps modem, and the game also picks your opponents for you so you’re stuck waiting forever.
The game is dogshit, the graphics ( which you now know what they are) are disturbing, and playing it online is an exercise in self-denial at best, torture on average.
now im not gonna say vanilla marvel 3 made alot more sense and was 8 times better than ultimate, but that is what i am going to heavily imply, doom, spencer, dorm and zero werent nearly as dumb, tron and she hulk were real characters, storm wasnt as bad as she is now, DHC glitch wasnt that big of a deal looking at it now, dark phoenix wasnt broken; xfactor made her broken, and the low tier of that game with the exception of spiderman, morrigan, haggar, captain america and maybe vjoe are still pretty much at the exact same spot on the tier list in ultimate because their changes were useless and we didn’t need 12 shitty new characters that consist of Vergil, nova, strider and characters that people like to think are “potential top tier” or “secret top tier” that ultimately do nothing but provide less than reputable assists. strange bolts and log trap? Yeah I’m def gonna use those over hidden missiles and plasma beam
now i’m not gonna say someone who’s spent a total of <50 hours playing the game (probably way less than that) doesn’t have much credit, but that is what i’m going to heavily imply. You may have watched your fair share of tournament videos, but all that tends to give is doom and vergil are great because they are easy, and non-top level players using non-top tier characters doesn’t prove they are bad. Just like how kusoru took final round with joe and raccoon synergy, their are still things to be discovered. It’s also like how dark phoenix in vanilla, true she isn’t broken because of the tech that carries over from ultimate, she was broken in her time. Vergil and morridoom are “broken” right now, but that isn’t to say something new won’t come out that will change that.
Strange bolts on that matter are not as safe as plasma beam by any means and can’t be used at point blank with the opponent, but they are duckable by most of the cast which allows for throws to be a threat and limits movement, gives fuzzy guard if they opt to stand block, the gap between bolts provides a moment for a skilled player to get a grab of some sort or a left-right mixup, and with how long it lasts is a decent lockdown as well. If it hits the opponents point character and assist on the first bolt, characters with good movement can confirm from full screen, or from what i see flash metroid do, converts into 5 beams and hyper beam from modok as a simple confirm into decent damage (more notably damage done to the assist). It also gives a good extension to combos for a lot of characters that generally leads to better damage than most assists because you can get extra moves since the assist has a gap and hits twice.
I’m far from being a strange fan, but nearly all characters offer some uniqueness to the game. Not sure if it’s banned in tournaments, shouldn’t be since tac infinites are allowed, but joe can offer infinites that don’t require a breakable TAC with his bomb assist, and a lot of teams can run off one assist like doom missiles (morrigan is far from needing rapid slash for it’s get off me for example).
This game somewhat needs the easier execution and simplicity that it has over like TTT2 or SF. In street fighter, a good pro player plays 2 or 3 different characters for matchup purposes. Marvel should be looked at the same, but you need to learn much more than 2 or 3 characters, as 3 characters are just one team. You can take vergil for what he’s worth and mix him into different teams, but the teams need to be fit for the different matchups you can come across, and strategies need to start getting more in depth. You have 5 meters from TAC infinite and can kill a character through it? I bet phoenix players in general got excited over that. But where are the crossover counters into Invincible hyper or combo? That’s just one example of what TAC infinites should have changed in this game, as i figured the CC system hasn’t been utilized because A) takes a meter and B) not all are safe and have purpose and C) most assists that make for good CC’s are virtually only good for that and hasn’t been worth both the meter and assist limitation.
Ghost rider still isn’t good enough to be used because of this, but his eat chain assist is invincible on CC and can punish into combo full screen. Doom is DHCing into astral vision? that’s 2 meters, where you can spend one and prevent bullet hell from ever happening (untested and dooms hyper could still hit GR on recovery i’m sure, and not sure how fast astral vision recovers to that note). If that specific idea for that specific situation isn’t to work, it’s whatever because it’s ghost rider, but it’s the mindset people need over “This character who i’ve never played to any extent isn’t worth anything because i read what one person has said when the game first came out and i stand by his day1 knowledge”.
TL;DR Then don’t comment, because i can’t shorten the details and you still get the full picture. stop being lazy, some useful knowledge and strategy has been foretold.
SFxT uses rollback netcode. Freezing and rollbacks are better than having the input delay changing throughout the match (and the match slowing down like molasses). If you don’t like SFxT’s netcode, then you might as well not like stuff like GGPO/Rollcaster/2DF despite those being the future of fighting game netcode.
you are definitely heavily implying that you dont have much credit, and you definitely said that kusoru won a major 4 months after the game was released using: Character No One Played/V.Joe/Character A Few People Played and he managed to beat Pr Balrog using log trap assist, now im gonna say that was pretty cute, but i cant think of a major that was won by Rocket Raccoon, V.Joe or to a lesser extent Frank since then, so they definitely had their moment in the sun until people realized that they arnt that good compared to a good amount of other characters in the game. I guess you could play them, but if you are trying to win a tournament you are more than likely not going to because as it stands now, i dont think vjoe or rocket raccoon can take on zero, hawkeye, morrigan, vergil, doom, dante, magneto, dormammu, wesker, nova, spencer and probably not even taskmaster. As for strange, for as long as he is out there he certainly dosnt do as much as hidden missles or plasma beam, i guess it helps like haggar hulk wesker and nova get in and apply mix ups, but hulk and nova would benefit more from drones while haggar and wesker would certainly benefit more from plasma beam, and i guess that flash metroid combo was pretty, but he also could have just as easily replaced strange with vergil and probably do the same damage and have a more solid character. TAC infinites were in vanilla, they just werent found until ultimate. alpha counters havent been explored because the characters who have good alpha counters generally cant do really good damage off of them without xfactor in which case you could just guard cancel with xfactor and use that meter you would of spent for an alpha counter as an ender that will probably kill the character. also you definitely told me ghost rider is bad
Edit: now if you are trying to win and you are putting your soul into it, you are probably gonna have doom, vergil or both on your team
Since tac infinites weren’t found out until ultimate, it only makes sense that CC’s weren’t used… nobody wanted to spend 1 meter to go to a character who can’t do damage. Also with tron assist being invincible either way, their wasn’t any reason to CC into her (btw, in ultimate her CC is no longer invincible)
Now, since tac infinites DO exist, magneto on point could CC for 1 meter into v.joe in second position, putting magneto in second position for a tac infinite that nullifies A) the meter usage of the CC and B) the lack of damage that joe can do is being done by magnetos tac
The crossover counter is basically a guard cancel XFactor without using that precious resource, used to punish a move with any kind of recovery frames that isn’t quickly cancelable.
The strange bolts could be replaced with drones, but everyone knows the weakness of drones, and the guy who picks bolts would be bullying the guy who picks drones. Also sentinel on the field has ok movement and options, and strange maybe not quite as much, but sentinel is susceptible to special combos and hit confirms that strange isn’t, and thus if ever locked down blocking becomes twice the nightmare it usually is. plasma beam won’t lockdown near as much so its a spurt of danger while bolts are an extended danger.
Fact is, bolts aren’t useless like you act they are, and theirs teams that benefit more from strange then sentinel, like having his counter projectile hyper as a dhc, or his other hyper that can do an immediate punish to some of the safest moves from anywhere on the screen.
The flashmetroid thing was an example of more purpose to use bolts over plasma beam, and modoks little combo was his easy option to confirm. To point it out though, the start of that combo is modoks beam to punish an something as simple as an airdash from the safety of full screen. By no means am i saying vergil and doom are bad characters and everyone in the cast is better than them. You could use that modok beam punish and dhc into swords, otg with vergil and call modok bomb to carry the combo into sword loops. These top tiers are great for getting the damage, mixups, and what-have-you, and i still foresee vergil or doom fitting quite nicely into every top players team, but CC is what the other characters can offer to these damage dealers, and vergils rapidslash is a slow assist with the best neutral purpose of get off me, whereas, as i listed, bolts gives greater use. Stranges point game being balanced out by what he offers to the team (killer hardtag combos to avoid chance of tac breaks, safe hard tag if meters an issue, bolts assist).
V.joe/raccoon was a strategy that won a major. I know kusoru isn’t bodying everybody now, but his strategy was unexpected and couldn’t be dealt with during that tournament. It’s an example of how strategy beats tiers, not of how tiers are completely irrelevant. Again, tiers need to be combined with a solid strategy, like chrisg has done and has won his 5/8 majors for this season. He has the top-tier strategy, while i’m proposing the answer is a more defensive strategy. CC the first hit of shell kick or a standing heavy from morrigan, tac, kill.
I’m implying mostly that if this was a street fighter or TTT2 thread, first and foremost, my only post would be as simple as “listen to this homeboy balltapper, he knows what he’s talking about”. i don’t have any grounds on those games and thus i don’t visit those threads (don’t play those games so no reason to) nor comment on them. I spent the last hour checking out a couple threads that were made during vanilla about invincible CC, and then loaded up marvel to check which ones could be confirmable into a combo with expending more than the 1 meter used to CC. the list is as follows:
Jill (somersault)
Thor (mighty smash)
Felicia (rolling buckler)
Morrigan (shadow blade)
Chris (punching boulders all day)
Ghost Rider (chains of rebuttal)
Chun Li (tenshokyaku)
X23 (crescent scythe)
Theirs others with invincible CC’s but they cannot convert into a combo without using XFactor or a hyper. Their is benefits to some of these over others, like GR hitting fullscreen, jill being 100% safe, felicia having good horizontal range. Then theirs the simple value of the character (morrigan) or possible gimmick or combo synergys (thor has his resets, and with spiderman a way to force the opponent to guard his air hyper and dhc to ultimate webthrow reset).
I’ve thought this out pretty well, and as i will say that while the fgc, in majority, may think that 90% of the cast is useless, i believe that nearly every character will have some worth in the time to come, that you can build a team around a character you like and make it work at top level play, but as everyone knows you can’t just throw 3 characters together, and your team will most likely involve at least one top tier character.
And frank west is still a great character, but somewhat a liability since he needs to be leveled up. Zero hasn’t won much majors at all and everyone knows he’s a top character, but it’s hard to say any character has won much majors when 5/8 were won by chrisg putting morrigan doom and vergil as the only characters to win “much” majors. Either way, frank has been taken out of many top teams for the ease of use other characters bring and tac infinites (doom plasma instead of shopping cart for the wolvie players, as an example).
Even MvC2 had it’s share of footsies, and most fighting games you have played, footsies played a dominant role in the neutral. MvC3 doesn’t follow that same logic by any means, and footsies don’t play any significant role in the game. zoning, space control, and rushdown mixups are the focus of the current neutral game approach, and before long varying strategic points are gonna be thrown into the mix, and if CC’s come into fruition soon, people are going to have to look at their attack approach differently to accommodate for it. I even see point skrull/nova(pulse) shells when this starts happening, where pulse will be used to limit movement and range command grabs will be a safe approach to the CC issue. Slowly, the game shall become more balanced and matchups will change greatly.
Last point… about the Ghost Rider thing… I still agree - nuff said.
The foreseen to still be absolutely useless in top level play is ironfist, ghost rider, hsien-ko, and the bad characters who are good in XF but still not even worth for that - arthur is all i can think on that for now.
Chris G 5/8 then the remaining 3 majors were won by Flocker Fchamp and PR Rog, unless you want to count those shitty international majors in which i couldnt tell you who won
Dieminion won them. Call them shitty all you want, they’re still majors and there was serious competition.
Vanilla had Vanilla Phoenix, Wolverine, Dante, even Vanilla Magneto. Dante was already too good and would’ve just gotten insane as time went on. Being able to block during air dashes. Half the cast being irrelevant for the sole fact that they couldn’t OTG without an OTG assist. Not being able to X-Factor in the air (leading to inescapable chip setups). All the glitches. You want more reasons?
Ultimate has Vergil, Wolverine, Doom and Magneto. The only thing that was naturally dumb about phoenix is that her traps didnt go away when she was hit, other than that, xfactor made her dumb. Vergil is already too good and is probably gonna stay at the top. being able to block during air dashes, yeah i guess that was a thing. Trish, Chun, VJoe, Captain America, Phoenix and Haggar are not half of the cast. not being to xfactor in the air? the whole concept of xfactor is still dumb, if anything the fact you can do it in the air was a buff to xfactor which was obviously something we all needed. glitches? like doom missiles breaking the game and DHC glitch? not to mention the glitches in ultimate that would have some strategic use like kubota escape, yeah remember that? it was something that was cute for a week then no one used it. but yes please give me more reasons, i am actually thoroughly interested in this conversation
