I still think SaBrE and FMJ are dead on point in this thread. It’s funny that Fighter_Guy is getting slammed because, well, he’s usually trolling to instigate some flames, but there is some merit to his “player 1 plays the CPU and player 2 plays online” example. I’ve had it happen to me twice, in two different games. I have two friends, who each read SRK. One summer, I can beat friend A in ST and friend B in 3s. A school year passes, I see them the next spring and start playing again. I’ve only played ST/3s with the CPU and my roommate (who does the same 3-4 tricks over and over). They played on XBL. After these 8 months, I can’t beat either one of them in their respective games. Two examples of players elevating their game by regularly playing online, while practicing their combos offline as well, proved to me that online play has value.
Random shit, but whatever, if it means anything, the only real play ive gotten out of Guilty Gear XX # reload was from my xbox and xbox live, and in evo 2k5 , i got a 5% of health away from knocking bas out of the losers bracket in #reload. 
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Have you ever played counter strike?
lol
But seriously though,
It is easier to get into a competitive scene starting with online and to move on over to offline play.
This happens in counter strike almost exclusivly and that scene is big and has been the biggest competitive scene in the united states for years now.
The vast majority of the players start off online only, Eventually some break out and hit up the lan/gamecafe scene, Move on to lan tournaments and so forth.
Yea, your post basically described 85 percent of competitive cs players but the thing is, That allowed growth and brought in new players to keep the cs competitive community growing. Some players being able to break out and step up their game and start putting in the effort to hitting up their lan scene.
All competitive scenes start and grow from the bottom. A lot of people like to get smug and elitist and belive communities should try their hardest to avoid catering to scrubs and go so far as doing shit that ends up not being conductive in welcoming newbies.
Online is a great way for noobs to get their feet wet, Plenty won’t go any further, Some will.
Arcades use to provide an easy way to meet up with a lot of different people and get your feet wet. That isn’t possible anymore.
Most of the people who still regularly play fighting games at arcades are people who are pretty damn good. That is going to make it harder for new players to get started in the competitive community if they have to spend a shit ton of money at an arcade only to get stomped in seconds.
At least with online play they have a chance at meeting up with other scrubs.
I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying.
However, I don’t think comparing it with an FPS works. I don’t know, but wasn’t CS just made to be played online anyway?
Also, with DOA, people have said the game’s patch update screwed with the move’s properties so it can be better catered for online play.
^If this is even remotely true, I’m lookin at that in an analogy such as Capcom for 3s slowing up Makoto’s EX moves so when playing online it’s easier to see coming. Or making Ken’s cr forward have a longer buffer zone so you can take forever and a day to perform it to compensate for lag and delay. Or like Gief’s splash in A3 being reduced in priority to lower abuse of it online.
I digress from all that though, doesn’t really matter, cause it didn’t happen for those games.
Like i thought I somewhat pointed out in how i was posting, that I agree with what people are saying about all of the games requiring online now. But I’m just trying to say that I totally understand why others DON’T want it.
A game like Virtua Fighter or even Tekken would play like complete ass online. Why don’t people look at some of the bad points of a game being played online too? People can and will go around thinking a game is mad garbage just cause of how they’ve been playing it online. That shit hurt DOA, even though the scene and community is pretty wack anyway.
Some people could be turned on to a series they never played before, due to online play and choose to go further with it.
But are you guys telling me that there aren’t or won’t be individuals that couldve potentially loved the shit out of a game offline, but only played it online… and now they’re turned off by it?
Online is a good thing, but I don’t think people should go around ignoring the fact that it also hurts certain aspects.
Playing online > Playing CPU
^stuff like that is so fuckin obvious that it’s not even worth mentioning.
However, I don’t think comparing it with an FPS works. I don’t know, but wasn’t CS just made to be played online anyway?
If wasn’t made to only be played online if that is what you meant.
CS can be played on lan and pretty much all of the biggest tournaments are lan only.
At the start of cs it got real big in lancenters since most people had 56k dial up and I belive it used an older style netcode and was later updated to use the prediction style that is standard in fps.
regardless, Lan is still best in terms of cutting down on a lot of the random that is online cs.
Which sounds a lot like the complaints of fighting games online.
It isn’t an ideal comparison. But I still think it works. Getting off the internet and irc/gotfrag and into your local lan center is much like taking that step away from online and hitting up your arcade. From there you got your tournaments.
But progression step by step is what leads to growth into a community.
In order for a community to grow it needs noobs and scrubs playing.
This was something that happened to the NA warsow scene almost a year ago. For whatever reason there were no deathmatch na servers the whole scene was dominated by duelers who mostly had experience from other 1v1 games.
Noobs would hear about the game and pick it up. Play a duel and get blown the fuck out 40-0 and never play the game again.
Peopled wondered why there was a scene in europe but not in north america. Answer? There were ctf and deathmatch servers for the noobs to have fun in.
You have more fun when you aren’t getting completly shut down in a 1v1 which makes you want to keep playing it.
And now with warsows last patch it added in a new gametype and I’ve seen about 3-4 North american servers running the CA gametype giving noobs a place to play without it being a 1v1 duel.
Coincidently more people are now playing the game in comparison to last summer.
That is how I see online fighting games. A place for noobs to jump in and get some comp. Plenty won’t take it further just like plenty who play cs never get past the pub scene or only playing online in cal. But some will.
Though really, I can’t see how somebody can like a game offline but hate it completly online except in one case.
When he gets owned to badly. Just like in my warsow example. Which in my opinion can have a bigger chance of happening if he decided to head up to an arcade.
Thing about scrubs of course is, Most of the time they aren’t going to be good enough to notice that online play is screwing with them.
To a top competitive player. VF will play like ass online. To a scrub who doesn’t understand the tighter mechnics to VF it is going to fly right over his head. If it got to the point where he starts to understand the game enough to where he’d realize online was ass. by that time he would have invested in plenty of time with the game and might be more willing to seek out offline comp.
Another thing all of this has similar with counter strike.(cs is much more random online than lan though for somewhat different reasons)
Off Topic.*
I really wonder why nobody has tried setting up a fighting game using prediction based netcode like what has become standard in pc fps.
I mean, It would solve some of peoples biggest gripes about fighting games online even though it would open up a few new problems that while are just random bs moments in fps games, would end up just as frusturating in a fighting game.
I personally don’t care if it’s lacking online - if they are thinking like AM2, then I’m inclined to agree with their direction.
Doesn’t this thread come up every time a VF game comes out? I swear it’s the prom queen of fighting games.
I agree.
I wish doa had no online…because it would force people to travel.
i doubt anyone would play DOA4 competitively if it had no online play.
I wish it was in the arcade.
Don’t use prediction-based netcode. TRUST ME.
man sabr3 these people really dont know lol, lol@all these people talking shit about fighters with netplay.
3s mm at evo finals please take my money I only play on xbl
I’m not shit talking. When it comes to Netplay in fighting games, I’m asexual.
I truly beleive that if that many players want netplay, they should have it.
However, most players who want this, say the don’t have local competition.
So why did these players ask for netplay, over a resurging arcade scene?
It really doesn’t matter. The reality of the situation is, the Japanese market (who literally pay for development and makerting themselves) don’t want or need it.
AM2 and Namco are making arcade games for Japan in mind.
Everyone else comes second, its the harsh reality of it.
If you guys really want these games to become online friendly.
I suggest making a petition or something.
It’s easier than having these constant debates, on a site that can’t help the situation.
I’m probably going to get flamed, but what the hell.
Trust me everyone that is clamoring for netplay would rather have a resurging arcade scene anyday of the week
Because it’s just some cliche that has no real plan behind it, and the overwhelming majority of players that support it, are just blindly repeating what people think is the ‘right’ thing to say. They just want someone to come fix everything so they don’t have to think about it anymore. It would be nice i guess, but sometimes unfortunately we have to solve our own problems.
As opposed to the mythical arcade, online play has been increasing competition and introducing new players to games for years, across many genres, leading many of those players to start successful offline scenes as well.
In addition, this kind of scene, combined with the current community’s desire to compete, IMO will create a superior offline than a traditional arcade can provide.
Which is why we can’t rely on their games for our scene if they aren’t willing to listen. Right now the players are giving them free advertising and promoting their game, and in return getting late releases with no online play and little company support. One side or the other is going to change.
I wish doa community was like your post
All fighting games should be online period.
I disagree. All fighting games should be played in the arcades. :wgrin:
^Says the guy next to FFA. :rolleyes: