Bipson is definitely tsumuji loopable, even since super. littlesushi also already posted his findings on the new characters, here: http://www.shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/bringing-knives-to-a-fistfight-ibuki-strategy-and-match-up-thread.126149/page-10#post-5436085
And Sako has been doing a lot of cl.st.MP , cl.st.MK starters, which should work on pretty much everybody that is tsumuji loopable. Also at this point, that loop starter is the highest damage/stun/mgain.
I use ST.MP -> ST.MK into loop whenever I can cause I find it easier and it works on characters like Ibuki and Akuma where as TC4 into it doesn’t.
I would like to add a special loop for versing t. hawk since for some odd reason when you hit him with a strong normal the tsumiji will push him really far away. TC4 x spin kick x lk tsumiji x st lp x st mk x finisher = over 300 damage.
Also I think mk tsumiji loops should also be included in your chart since they work against alot of crouchers as well as when they are standing (such as oni, akuma, and even c. Viper who can’t get be looped by any of the ones you listed). The best one does about 290-300 damage which is not bad either.
I haven’t tested any of the MK tsumuji loops, and I’m kind of lazy, so if you wanna do it, go ahead and I’ll add your results.
You can get an MK loop to work on Viper? It seems like it pushes her too far back, what’s the setup?
It’s funny that I can double tap Sagat’s fake kick, but I have a problem double tapping Ibuki’s standing jab. I don’t know if its because of the location of the button in relation to the others but I guess it just feels weird. I guess I just need to grind it out and practice some more.
^ i am having that same problem
The mk tsumiji loop starts with mp x mk x mk tsumiji x spin kick x ender. The problem is that you are limited to the enders that you can do because it is spin kick. You are limited further because of range. I usually end with ex tsumiji sweep for 290 damage and 482 stun, but on some characters you can end with ex raida for 301 damage. You can do this from pretty far distances as well depending on who you are fighting. The only ducking characters that it does not work on are yun, yang, Balrog, chun li, El Fuerte, Gen, Ibuki, and Rose. The only standing characters that it does not work on are T hawk and juri.
Updated the charts to include AE values. Currently working on the new AE characters.
Are there any loops I should add/test?
Edit: finally added meter gain values, for AE.
Can you test in which characters these loops work?I tested them only on akuma.
crhp>sjc kunai>stmp>stmk>lk tsumuji>stlp>stmk>nb damage:372 stun:601
crhp>sjc kunai>stmk>lk tsumuji>stlp>stmk>nb damage:354 stun:577
By taking a look at the chart these should be two of the most damaging/stunning tsumuji loops.
In my experience so far, they should work on everyone that is loopable because cr.HP xx SJC kunai puts you at cl.st.MP , cl.st.MK range already.
Also:
nj.HP , cr.HP xx JC kunai , cl.st.MP , cl.st.MK xx lk.Tsumuji , st.LP , st.MK xx Neckbreaker = 440dmg/723stun, making it Ibuki’s best post-dizzy combo and almost enough to stun anybody in the cast with this plus one mixup.
Ok so after some more boring testing and tsumuji loop practice, I filled out the additional three loops. Results:
cl.st.MP , cl.st.MK is the same as cl.st.MK starter. Going by this, this loop is the best way to maximize damage without having to consider different loops, since it will work on everybody that is loopable and does most dmg/stun/meter.
cr.HP loop starter is tricky. It works all the time against the usual large characters: Abel, DeeJay, Sagat. And it works on Adon/Boxer/Guy/Hakan, but these four characters are special cases. In order for it to work, the cr.HP has to be as deep as possible. In other words, unless your opponent is walking into it, or you land cr.HP after a hit (such as FA or j.HP), the st.LP will probably be too far to link. Additionally, something seems strange about the spacing. Even after landing the st.LP, the st.MK feels like a 1 or 2f link. Any later and it’ll whiff. I’m guessing it has something to do with catching the character animation hitbox at the most horizontal part, as they recover from the st.LP hit. If you want to avoid this, just follow up the st.LP with cr.HK, or TC10 if you’d like. Also on Guy, I could never get the st.MK or cr.HK to link, so this loop might be pretty useless against him.
I think cr.HP loop starter will be pretty obsolete once we figure out cr.HP xx JC kunai on the whole cast. Except Abel because for some reason I guess his hitbox is so big you can’t aim a kunai for his ankles. The main benefit of cr.HP tsumuji loop starters is that you can get really good dmg/stun/meter for just a single 1f link.
Also, the Hien shortcut is really annoying. If you’re like me and you do :db::hp:, let go of stick/pad , :qcb::ub::k: to do SJC Tsumuji, there’s a good chance of getting a shortcutted Hien instead.
So has anybody been doing their tsumuji loops with back-plinking? I’m kind of at a crossroads here. I can do back-plink on a pad fairly decently, but I don’t know if I’ll ever get it near 100% like regular plinking on a stick. But on a stick, there is no way of back-plinking without re-wiring the stick. Otherwise you’re stuck with double-tapping which is far more inconsistent, even if you could double-tap perfectly. What do you guys think? Maybe there is some secret to mastering back-plinking on a pad?
Don’t you mean on stick?
On a stick i find rewiring back/select to the KKK button is the most comfortable. That way I can get the plinking fairly consistent (that is, i get two inputs). However it doesn’t help me doing the loop because I either hit the jab spot on or too late, and I can’t get used to doing it a frame early, but you might have more success. Well it does at least help me comboing into f.lk. And it makes cr.lk > cr.lp cake, though it might already be for you.
No, I mean on a pad.
I use my right pointer finger to press jab (default button layout) and left thumb to press back/select on ps3 pad. Going by this, I will only be able to back-plink standing jabs and shorts, so I’m out of luck with cr.LK , f+LK links or cr.LK , cr.LP links.
Then I don’t know since i don’t use a pad. If you’re holding your hand like that I guess you can try ring finger on jab, and index on select. I was able to tsu-loop doing that but the crouching links were harder. And it kinda option selects pause as well =).
Just curious, how do you execute the b-link? So would it be like, lk tsumuji > select and lp at the same time?
Actually I think I mis-spoke. I meant right thumb on jab.
The same way you execute a regular plink, except you use the back/select button.
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Thanks Mingo, this really helps.
So I re-wired my stick and swapped the PPP button with select, and now I can plink jabs with index+pinkie, and plink shorts with thumb+pinkie. I dunno why I didn’t do this earlier. Being able to hit tsumuji loop 80%+ of the time feels good, and that was only after like an hour total of index+pinkie plinking practice, compared to weeks of pad training and I still can’t do it on pad at least 50% of the time. Looks like the pad is useless now.