I though the same thing recently. They’re already pretty fast in Vanilla, but I remember not seeing the cat statue in Raccoon’s reveal trailer until after watching her closely.
:f: (it’s actually called Rantetsu, not like it matters. Just being pedantic.) is already good at stopping dash-ins and some jump-ins lower to the ground. Like EvuL said, you might be able to launch a counterattack from a poke and into the corner for some brutality.
I think her gameplan looks alright: zone with Gongs and items, make your way to the opponent but be patient for him/her to come to you, then counter with a command normal of your choosing (possibly bait them into the height you want to hit them with items and gongs), mount your offense from mdscreen with whatever combo you want or even a pendulum like LL.ND said. Not bad, as long as better zoners dont give her too much trouble (Dorm and Doom will still be groan-worthy matchups).If she had those pendulum cancels, she’d be gorgeous.
Oh, they have the key to open the vault alright. It’s just that Neo_G left it under a flowerpot in the garden or something and doesn’t really feel like going back to get it.
I think some people are underestimating Hsien-ko buffs. As a Hsien-ko user since day 1 i will post my points of view:
the bombs with no hitbox will come out on a reduced pace of at least half the times they appeared in vanilla due to the amount of items she can throw now, so a spam of anki-hou covered with gongs will be way more useful now
jump cancels after of Edoga will allow some extra punish and probably full combos, so her range for getting in has increased massively (i have to test it myself though). Untechable time for edoga increased is a secret buff for this new ability of her.
c.M startup reduced, so c.M will be more effective now as a getting in tool.
three status effects are now caused by anki-hou: stun, dizzy, freeze. She can throw now like 12 items, in vanilla only 6 and 1 status effect. So, going by basic maths: 3/12 > 1/6, a slight buff for anki hou that can produce strings of anki-hous, and if helped by a beam assist and gongs Hsien-ko will be doing lots of chip and projectile pressure.
no block while air dashing, wolvie losing invincibility on berserker slash, hyper bar charging 90% of what it could in vanilla. These are secret buffs for Hsien-ko gong zoning style.
mmm btw, i have a question. Was henkyo ki (the gong) startup reduced? i want to know if it’s confirmed to be false.
Were ready, 5 more days for the Hype Train. My heart skipped a beat when I saw they put Morrigan first cause I hada feelin Ko followed, Almost forgot to breath when she came up lol, happy we got to see the changes early in real time.
Everything that you said here is totally valid. However, in a game with so much insane bullshit as this, why does Hsien-Ko have to work with so many disadvantages against her, versus all of the amazing things other characters are capable of doing? Why does she have to be so slow? Why did they take away her ability to cancel her pendulum swing? Why is she the only character in the game who has a projectile that actually works against her? Why doesn’t her gong properly reflect all projectiles? Why can’t she perform any actions off her air throw when almost everyone else in the game can?
I recognize the buffs they gave her, and I’m thankful for them, and I’m sure that they’ll improve her as a character. However, it’s mostly due to her being so terrible in the first place - she had nowhere to go but up. Actually, I take that back - until they confirmed the jump cancelable command normals, it was looking like she was mostly receiving sidegrades and nothing significant was coming her way. I’ll admit that the extra untechable time on Edoga is nice too, but still, there’s so many things that she still has working against her.
I’m going into Ultimate using Hsien-Ko, just as I did in vanilla, but I am not going to sit here and praise the CapGods for the scraps they tossed her way. Out of everything that is messed up about her, there are really 3 things that irk me the most since none of them make any sense - how bombs work, removal of pendulum cancel, and the inability to act on air throws. Despite how the overall gameplay changes going into Ultimate will favor her zoning playstyle, I feel she is still a very poorly designed character.
I still want to see a picture of Hsien-Ko riding on top of Nemesis’ shoulders, her pointing the way while he holds onto one of her legs and stares off in the direction she’s pointing. Protector and Charge. If all goes well, he’ll take good care of her. If I were any good at drawing, I’d do it.
Peacock and Dio himself will quench my thirst for Road Rollers. I want her to throw mini-MODOKs.
Besides, I have this feeling she just doesn’t have the pure rage to pound on a steamroller like that. She’s too humble outside of combat and tricky in it.
And where the hell is the hammer? Nothing like stunning someone with a good hammer. Speaking of which, a change I’d like to see is her predictable item rotation back. Force the opponent to pay attention. But would guaranteed stuns be too much? Not if they’re hard to land. She-Hulk can get them off alright. Just watch Combofiend.
This is pretty much what I meant by other people not realizing how this’ll change her.
Golden assist is good, but it’s punishable. If you’re running someone with a fullscreen beam hyper, bait her out and DUUUUURIA away. Or you can just snap her in.
Hyper Viper Ha is good too, but it’s not unique to her. Taskmaster can do the same with his TK’d Arrow hyper, and Spencer can do 6 Bionic Lancers in one combo, though the latter’s pretty much a combo video gimmick.
The last one is neat. When I get back into playing, I should practice it. LL.ND made great use of it a while back.
What I mean by BS, though, is stuff like Devil Trigger with Lightning spam. Magneto pressure. Hammer. Rapid Seismos. Giving her a cancelable Pendulum wouldn’t give her anything that cheesy, and that’s good. It’d make her tricky, slippery, but give her a good tool to work with that isn’t derp. You’d have to know your trajectories and when to cancel. It’d require thinking, and everybody’d like that.
Well, that was long-winded. On another note, this was posted in the General Discussion:
For the last goddamn time, gold armor is not BS. If you’re talking about using it to power up an assist, which I’m sure you are because that’s it’s main use - it is entirely baitable and punishable. It doesn’t activate nearly as fast as Haggar or Tron’s assists, which can easily lead into full combos. When used on point, unless your opponent is somehow locked down or doesn’t respect you, it’s next to worthless since she is easily ran from.
For Hsien-Ko to get in against an opponent and make gold armor useful, your opponent has to either not have a clue what it does (most likely since so few people play her), not fear you, or not respect you. Grab states are entirely possible even when you’re in gold armor, and with the way this game rewards some characters in regards to option selects, it happens. You get thrown by in this game by the right character and there’s a really good chance she’s dead. Plus, there’s characters who have specials that inflict grab states that make it impossible to encroach on them - Magneto being the worst thanks to Hyper Grav. Even if she does get in and you are able to inflict damage, unless you’ve got multiple bars to drop, Hsien-Ko is maybe doing 1/3rd of a lifebar on the average character max. That’s not fucking scary, and it’s certainly not BS.
Especially when you have options like Wright’s Turnabout Press the Witness. He’s invincible for I believe the entire duration (we’ll just have to find out), and if you snap him in, he can at least try to get some breathing room so he can pelt you with Fingers and evidence projectiles. And then there’s log. they both look better for the most part.
That log, which is ironically(?) named Pendulum, is like pouring salt and twisting a lemon on the wound. Rocket Raccoon by himself is far better equipped to dominate the zoning game than Hsien-Ko is, but they had to go and throw that in there too?
Here are some advantages to the log:
It’s incredibly fast and covers almost the entire length of the mid-screen jumping area.
Startup looks damn near instant and combined with the speed of the actual move, Rocket is very safe getting in and out
It counts as a projectile, and we’ve yet to know how many durability points it will have, though I’m going to guess it will be pretty beefy.
Unlike Hsien-Ko, Rocket Raccoon doesn’t have to worry about sacrificing his own health to trade and help his partner open up the opponent.
Last but not least - it causes a wallbounce, meaning a free combo. The hitstun generated by Senpu Be is actually pretty minor, so if your opponent traded with Hsien-Ko but still managed to hit your point character, there’s a fair chance you won’t recover in time to capitalize off her attack.
Since we’re talking artwork, I think we need to have a picture of Dan and Hsien-Ko sitting on a bench, riding the pine together. Seems appropriate.
Raccoon and I are in a love-hate relationship. I kinda want to use him and love him, and yet at the same time, I kinda want to beat him into the ground. If I’m using him, though, it’ll probably just be for his lockdown assist.
lol, I can’t imagine her putting up with Dan for more than five minutes.
This was awesome for the first month or so, but people caught on pretty quick and the cheap bs in MvC3 beat that strategy down rather soundly after a while.
lack of mobility in this game means death
She won’t be a good character until that is fixed. She stepped up, but she needs to do more than that considering the position on the roster she is coming from.
Have you ever seen an old movie called The Mighty? It is about the relationship that two young boys(one small, sickly and intelligent, the other huge and dumb but with a kind heart) form and it is a lot like you described. There are even times when the huge one carries the smaller one this way.
That’s part of the joke. She could have a caption that says, ‘Oh GOD will someone just pick me already???’ while Dan tries to preach to her the glory of Saikyo.
Okay, maybe I will type up my stupid analogy anyway.
It’s like she’s on a school field trip and Mr. Niitsuma-san grouped her with all of the weird and annoying kids or the ones no one will hang out with because he thought she’s nice and would just put up with it, and now she’s stuck rooming with Dan and Arthur and Shuma keeps trying to get into the room and Hakan’s trying to sell oil to everyone. Though I guess Arthur’s not too bad of a guy.
No hate to those guys though. I love them all.
Wow, this forum is just prone to making random depressing stories, isn’t it?
(it’s actually called Rantetsu, not like it matters. Just being pedantic.) is already good at stopping dash-ins and some jump-ins lower to the ground. Like EvuL said, you might be able to launch a counterattack from a poke and into the corner for some brutality.