New tier list

[3S]

The more you look at a tier list, the more it seems like a character usage chart or how “figured out” a character is. Near the bottom of the list are characters hardly played, so it’s like “how good are these match ups really understood?” once you get down there. And then you have the “surprise” factor when you come across a character you hardly see used and don’t know how to fight properly (Wong vs Adon).

Would Cammy really be that high if players like Sako and Alioune were playing someone else? These guys are on a whole different level and even if Cammy isn’t that well represented, they have some of the best players using her. I’m not saying she is bad, I think Cammy is good, just that these players playing her might be inflating her position on a tier list.

We as Dudley players, a character who is underrepresented, would obviously have disagreements with a tier list rankings. Pretty sure the Gens, Makotos and the serious Dan, Hakan and Sakura players are doing the same thing we are in their own thread.

QFT x 5

[Mr.X]

[media=youtube]Vvi1Lfke-Vo[/media]

Stumbled across this. I feel bad for laughing at what he said around 1:50.

[3S]

[media=youtube]Vvi1Lfke-Vo[/media]

Stumbled across this. I feel bad for laughing at what he said around 1:50.

its ok i started laughing too

[Darkyellow]

I went to that laughed at the mustache bit and then turned it off. What was that for?

[cHaotix]

Would Cammy really be that high if players like Sako and Alioune were playing someone else? These guys are on a whole different level and even if Cammy isn’t that well represented, they have some of the best players using her. I’m not saying she is bad, I think Cammy is good, just that these players playing her might be inflating her position on a tier list.

I get what you’re saying with this but Cammy is pretty good. Top 10 easy.

[Mr.X]

I get what you’re saying with this but Cammy is pretty good. Top 10 easy.

Yeah, that could’ve been worded better but my point still stands.

[ciry]

The more you look at a tier list, the more it seems like a character usage chart or how “figured out” a character is. Near the bottom of the list are characters hardly played, so it’s like “how good are these match ups really understood?” once you get down there. And then you have the “surprise” factor when you come across a character you hardly see used and don’t know how to fight properly (Wong vs Adon).

Would Cammy really be that high if players like Sako and Alioune were playing someone else? These guys are on a whole different level and even if Cammy isn’t that well represented, they have some of the best players using her. I’m not saying she is bad, I think Cammy is good, just that these players playing her might be inflating her position on a tier list.

We as Dudley players, a character who is underrepresented, would obviously have disagreements with a tier list rankings. Pretty sure the Gens, Makotos and the serious Dan, Hakan and Sakura players are doing the same thing we are in their own thread.

It’s true that you have the certain “wow who’s this character” kind of edge with duds, but the sad fact is that the top tiers are top tiers since they have better tools. Cammy is high tier since her instant air cannon spike, footsies and DP are top tier, not because Sako plays her. I mean Marn plays dudley and even won Walle in a tournament final with him and he’s still mid - mid/low tier.
Duds is mid’ish tier because many of his mixup tools don’t work that well in SF4, ducking mix up is actually unsafe, semi bad footsies and SSB/thunderbolt being useless. It doesn’t make duds useless or impossible to win with, you just gotta work a bit more.

[Mr.X]

People sleep on characters until they blow up someone else in a tourney. People were doing this to Fei until Mago and Inthul were showing off what he could do. And then Luffy with Rose, actually back in SF4. Time that characters were available to be played is also important.

But I think the new characters are put in weak intentionally and then later buffed up, to see what they need instead of seeing what they need to lose. Look at some of the SF4 console characters then and now: Rose, Fei, Cammy all solid and scary now.

[MeLLoW]

People sleep on characters until they blow up someone else in a tourney. People were doing this to Fei until Mago and Inthul were showing off what he could do. And then Luffy with Rose, actually back in SF4. Time that characters were available to be played is also important.

But I think the new characters are put in weak intentionally and then later buffed up, to see what they need instead of seeing what they need to lose. Look at some of the SF4 console characters then and now: Rose, Fei, Cammy all solid and scary now.

This makes a shitload of sense. Dudley needs some tweaking around, he’s still solid enough to compete. But, like everyone else is saying he needs to work harder for victory.

[Mr.X]

Marn’s doing a good job repping Dudley where ever he goes and I can’t wait to see him at SB!

[Spinister]

as much as i’m liking the international team for seasons beatings 5v5…i really want the local team to win go DUDS

[Upcoming_Fighter]

new tier list is garbage, dudley is seriously not that bad… id say the i play winner one is more accurate at least for dudley…

[0Kenji0]

The more you look at a tier list, the more it seems like a character usage chart or how “figured out” a character is. Near the bottom of the list are characters hardly played, so it’s like “how good are these match ups really understood?” once you get down there. And then you have the “surprise” factor when you come across a character you hardly see used and don’t know how to fight properly (Wong vs Adon).

Would Cammy really be that high if players like Sako and Alioune were playing someone else? These guys are on a whole different level and even if Cammy isn’t that well represented, they have some of the best players using her. I’m not saying she is bad, I think Cammy is good, just that these players playing her might be inflating her position on a tier list.

We as Dudley players, a character who is underrepresented, would obviously have disagreements with a tier list rankings. Pretty sure the Gens, Makotos and the serious Dan, Hakan and Sakura players are doing the same thing we are in their own thread.

Best read this year on SRK, I couldn’t agree more.

[pattybenpatty]

The more you look at a tier list, the more it seems like a character usage chart or how “figured out” a character is. Near the bottom of the list are characters hardly played, so it’s like “how good are these match ups really understood?” once you get down there. And then you have the “surprise” factor when you come across a character you hardly see used and don’t know how to fight properly (Wong vs Adon).

Would Cammy really be that high if players like Sako and Alioune were playing someone else? These guys are on a whole different level and even if Cammy isn’t that well represented, they have some of the best players using her. I’m not saying she is bad, I think Cammy is good, just that these players playing her might be inflating her position on a tier list.

We as Dudley players, a character who is underrepresented, would obviously have disagreements with a tier list rankings. Pretty sure the Gens, Makotos and the serious Dan, Hakan and Sakura players are doing the same thing we are in their own thread.

I main Dan and I do so seriously, well as serious as can be online. I tallied up all my win ratios and came up with 159. My numbers parallel the tier for the most part. A few exceptions: Rose and Gen are both ~2.5-7.5 in their favor, Akuma is ~2.5-7.5 in MY favor.

I’m about 15% ahead of the curve but the overall trend is pretty close. I’ll do the same thing for my Adon and Dudley later today, see where they sit.

[Alex]

WHile what Mr X said is true. That is the very nature of what a tier list is. The entire concept of a theory tier list is crazy like that. It is made by humans that consider things they are not suppose to consider when making a good “Theory list.”

A tier list should be made by 1 person that fully understands every character and doesnt let a top players natural skill/ability affect his judgment. Only the character should be looked at, not the player. But no human really has that knowlege to begin with.

SO hythotecial question: If someone like Jwong or Daigo invested all of their time, practice, and natural ability into a “low tier” character, and started winning lots of tournys, would that effect the tier list? Sadly yes it would, that low tier character would go up, despite the character never really changing at all.

I guess all im saying is take these with a grain of salt, and play whoever you honestly believe you can win with.

[Darkyellow]

Doing anything objectively is hard if not impossible, but it’s not like the Tier lists are very wrong or absolutely right. The lists usually come fairly close to what would be “true”. Some characters are clearly better than others and there are ways you can quantify this by looking at the game’s data. The tier lists in other games that have been out longer are pretty much accepted as standard. I don’t think anyone is going to deny that Bruce in DR was one of the worst characters in the game or that Twelve, Sean, and Q are not very good. What you should be looking for is fluctuations in the middle. The top and bottom have pretty much stabilized.

[3S]

WHile what Mr X said is true. That is the very nature of what a tier list is. The entire concept of a theory tier list is crazy like that. It is made by humans that consider things they are not suppose to consider when making a good “Theory list.”

A tier list should be made by 1 person that fully understands every character and doesnt let a top players natural skill/ability affect his judgment. Only the character should be looked at, not the player. But no human really has that knowlege to begin with.

SO hythotecial question: If someone like Jwong or Daigo invested all of their time, practice, and natural ability into a “low tier” character, and started winning lots of tournys, would that effect the tier list? Sadly yes it would, that low tier character would go up, despite the character never really changing at all.

I guess all im saying is take these with a grain of salt, and play whoever you honestly believe you can win with.

This.

Posting threads like these saying the Dudley is so low on the list only disheartens the regular players. If i listened to Tier Lists, i wouldn’t main half the characters i do. I play Noel in BB: Continuum Shift I play Zelda in Brawl, Link in Melee. My MvC2 Team is Jill Morrigan and Psylocke. In THis game i play the 3rd Strike Characters (according to lists Ibuki is the best of the 3) etc. play who you feel comfortable with, not whose ranked numbah 1.

[rebound]

You need to be ON POINT and smart or else you’ll get blown up by people who know how to play Super Street Fighter 4.

Fixed that for you. You don’t think you need to be on point with other characters? The best players aren’t the best because they tier-whore; they’re the best because they’re on point. Sure, I won’t necessarily disagree that the margin for error is lower for characters like Dudley than it is for shotos or what have you, but it’s kind of silly to make Dudley sound like some kind of, “If you can hit 15 1f links IN A ROW…you might have a shot at winning a round MAYBE” character.

3S. put it perfectly. This is all theoryfighter; play your character; if you don’t like him, then whatevs.

[Logan_Sama]

isI made a post previously about all of the Akuma Vortex options. the odds are heavily in dudley’s favour in terms of risk/reward

[East]

isI made a post previously about all of the Akuma Vortex options. the odds are heavily in dudley’s favour in terms of risk/reward

Palm’s priority doesn’t care about your options, Dive Kick’s hitbox doesn’t care about your options, and throw is giving you the stink eye in case you decide to try that blocking thing.