i like games more like tekken ST cvs2 and…guilty gear is too odd sometimes…i play my friend and i hate the way the grabs in the game works…sometimes he does a wake up grab??? WTF…i jump in and he grabs me right before i land!!! also cvs2 combos are hard as fuck…1 frame supers!!! i love that shyt…only masters of the game can pull off this shyt…also i like the fact in cvs2 and 3rdstrike u have to actually think of how to get into ur opponent…cant jump always cause if u do anti air…cant just run up cause u get poked…u gotta have a strategy to get in there…guilty gear has strategy too but i feel its a lil different cause of the double jumping, fault defenses in air and ground…and all the crazy projectiles characters have…some characters have ridiculous lockdowns like Ky, sol badguy and some characters its hard to get near them cause of the things they have like testament webs, trees…SF has option parry…which pisses me off at times…so then that leads to counter thinking their option parry and then its turns into a mind fuck…
All in all…even though the new games have heavy chains…they are still hard to do and u still need to have timing to pull them off…
qft. People say they don’t like simplified games execution wise, but mvc2 simplified the combo system, and the rest is history. Doesn’t make sense to me why having to spend more time in training mode makes a game better.
now you’re just coming across as a gigantic moron.
just because you personally cant see the positioning doesn’t mean the game sucks, if you dont know why pawns are so important in chess, surely they aren’t being used!
hitconfirming DOES happen in guilty gear, there are links, but they are less prevailant. they replace a majority of “tough combos” (in a footsie, all link game) with “memorization for a specific situation” its a different kind of difficulty, its just once you know the second situation, you can actually apply things like outthinking your opponent instead of outthinking him and being able to react to a hitconfirm. little reprimand for failure? thats like every fighting game ever with a link, because generally if you fail the only way the combo would have worked is if it was safe on block! the failure you get is the bonus damage, and guess what, this is universal to every fighting game fucking ever!
Completely untrue for GGXX at least. One way to put it:
Dave Sirlin, in his book, spends a good deal of time describing top fighting-game players in detail. In his writeup of Daigo, he says something like "Daigo doesn’t even have to know a game very well - he can step right in and dominate simply by ‘being Daigo’.
Well, GGXX was the one game where he tried and couldn’t do this. He was very damn good, don’t get me wrong, but never truly among the best in Japan. To me, that speaks very strongly of the game’s strategical depth.
EDIT: For people who prefer links, you’re in luck: Many of Slayer’s important combos in Accent Core are link-based. I think Arc consciously aimed to make him more of a CvS2-style character, considering he already had roll cancel…
First of all, I didn’t once imply that because I couldn’t see the positioning (which I can, it’s just besides the point) the game sucked. Not once.
Next: We aren’t fucking talking about hit confirms OR links, we’re talking about block strings. Which brings me back to my first point which is: There’s no reason if you get the chance NOT to keep going with the string because it’s safe regardless. There’s no decision to make, there’s no “Will this actually hit? Gee I don’t know”.
Actually there’s plenty of ways to make strings like you’re describing unsafe. Faultless Defense to increase pushback and create gaps to escape or punish. Instant Block to reduce blockstun and punish. Using certain moves (fast normals, generally) to break out of sloppy frame traps. Dead Angle Attack to break up pressure. Even backdashes can get you out of trouble. That’s why good players do a series of short strings in quick succession, because that changes escape options quickly and lets them set baits more easily.
Given how brutal the counters can be (Johnny backdash -> f.S XX L2 Mist Finer into 70% damage… Sol VV RC into Sidewinder loop… Baiken counter FRC into dust loop… Potemkin IB -> Pot Buster… etc.), pressure isn’t nearly as “safe” as you make it out to be. That’s why it’s not just one long, safe string… it’s a series of quick, sorta safe-ish strings done in a manner where it’s hard to spot escape points for sure, forcing defenders to guess a bit… but also forcing the attacker to adjust for defensive functions like FD.
whats been bugging me is guilty gear vids Ive seen lately is A LOT of just dashing in weather by air or ground getting them to block and try to break thier guard. OVer and over. Just doge the shit on the screen then run in and hope they cant react.
??? so you’re annoyed by people using basic game mechanics? There’s more going on than “just run in” 'cuz that gets raped by good poking. You can use IADs/dash-ins to reset pressure if you have someone conditioned to not hit the buttons that counter those approaches, but you also have to give up a lot to make those options be safe… dry IADs are asking to be 6P/airthrown, for instance, but you can make it hard to airthrow by attacking early… but sometimes that means if they didn’t try to airthrow, you get thrown on landing. There are air attacks that dodge/beat 6Ps (Jam iad214K/623K and j2K, Venom Red Hail, etc.), but if they just block you typically don’t get very much for them, especially the ones that cost tension.
And of course all that changes when people have tension, charges/coins, whatever.
That’s not to say that running/IADing in over and over is bad. You just have to set it up or outguess your opponent. Running/IADing in can be beating by simple poke placement as well… but you also get FD brake fakeouts to bait whiffs and get in anyhow, plus jumping at the right distances can bait/beat out lots of preemptive attempts to stop you from attacking on the ground. It’s just footsies with anime graphics.
Well its not footsies, but I know what you mean. I playd GGXX hardcore so know how the game works, its lots of zoning and guesswork. I like the game, Im just commenting on a lot of the recent vids from achoo and chariot that just bugged me.
This automatically turned into a 2D discussion. BUT it is partially inaccurate to state that modern fighters are into that blinding 20 hit+ combos found in MvC2 and guilty gear. That problem is ONLY for 2D modern fighters. NONE of the major 3D modern fighters (ie… VF4, EVO, VF5, TK5, TK5DR, SCIII) are based on blinding heavy chained combo that you are talking about.
BY the way, I consider the two genres sort of like American RPG and Japanese RPG, they’re RPGs but they are hardly similar. so Fighting games refer to both, unless you specify 2D vs. 3D.
As for what I prefer, I prefer a more non hectic pace (ie… SF2,3, CvS2, VF, Tekken, Soul calibur.) I tried Guilty gear and could possibly get into it but had no consistent people to play with. (i can get 2D come in the form of street fighter games, and I could get 3D comp, but I can’t really get Guilty Gear Comp from local friends and family). I will say this though, from afar, the hectic 20 hit combo type of games do look spectacular. Thats sex appeal to a truly dying Sub genre (2D fighters,) to an already dying genre (fighters).
Not Vampire Savior, just Vampire. Aka Darkstalkers 1. Vampire Savior is Darkstalkers 3.
And the chains in the Darkstalkers series are fairly limited compared to other games with chains. In fact, in Darkstalkers 1, you could only go light-medium-hard. In wasn’t until Darkstalkers 2 (aka Vampire Hunter) that the LP-LK-MP-MK-HP-HK chains were possible in that series (hence the popular term “Hunter Chain”). Darkstalkers chains can’t be cancelled out of, so you can’t do chain xx special or super, and you can’t juggle with them, either (very few things actually can juggle in the DS games at all).
I don’t think the new games are really chain heavy. They actually make it easier to cancel into specials, and allow those who put in the effort to compete more readily against the ppl with better spacing, zoning, and game plan. They allow the player a lot more freedom to improve and compete. Knowledge, frame traps, rush down patterns, okizeme setups, and combos go a long way in this game and help those who are willing to put in the effort, but are not naturally good at zoning and reflexes, to stand a chance against the better players. Of course in the end, the better player who is a lot better at positioning and zoning, and has a better game plan would win. And the better thing about GG is positioning and zoning is VERY VERY OBVIOUS (though not as obvious as knowledge, frame traps and set ups), so you can, to some extent, learn from vids on how to zone well with your character. While you’re working at that, you can also work on some knowledge on what pokes of yours beat the opponents, and what are good frame traps for your character.
In essence, GG and the new games provides a lot of ways for the player to improve. If one finds it hard to improve their spacing skills and game plan, then at least they still have other stuff to work with. Unlike SF where once the basics are learnt, you’re just stuck with zoning, positioning skills and game plan. These things can’t be learnt by effort alone and takes a long time to master.
In Tekken 5 (Not sure about the other 3d fighters), juggling is important as footsies and poking to win. Of course you could win without juggling (Like me with my sub-par Paul), but it is an entirely uphill battle because a good player only needs to pull off two launchers to entirely deplete his/her opponent’s lifebar, where as someone like me, who can’t juggle if his life depended on it, have to somehow win by making as few mistakes as possible while connecting 10 or so standalone pokes.
This is very true in both accounts. You don’t ALWAYS have to hit confirm. It’s really just another bonus option to have when you have meter. Hit confirming into super is the easiest thing in all of existence.
Alpha 2 CCs were awful, but on their own, Alpha 3’s VCs weren’t that bad. They’re probably the strictest of the custom combo systems, so they require some forethought to use well. The biggest problem is how many lead into the crouch cancel infinites, but that’s more an overall Alpha 3 system issue than a VC one.
My problems with CCs are:
-when they have invincible startup
-relaxed juggle rules
-timers last too long
I’m okay with high damage combos, but when they are get-out-of-jail-for-free cards that are safe on block (and feed into freestyle mixup to decent damage), that’s a bit ridiculous. They just skew risk/reward in ways that are pretty stupid.
Then again I play A Groove for just that reason ;(
i dunno cvs2 CCs don’t seem that terribly gamebreaking they just do a little too much damage especially with a select few characters otherwise they are pretty on par compared to most supers. if they made a few character/damage tweaks (ie shoshosho = gonegonegone and anything super dumb like that) to A groove it would be very balanced.
not that supers arent ridiculously good in cvs2 or anything no sir
3D juggles are not chain combos. Tekken has strings(different from chains).
Everybody can juggle in Tekken. It’s just that not every character was created equal when it comes to how fast you can learn it. By all means I suck at execution(V-Ism and A-Groove are off limits for me) but I got down Lili’s best juggle on my first try. For some of the characters all you need is to know what are the commands for the moves in the juggle and see someone else do it. Rythm is the key. Paul’s juggles aren’t as easy to pick up. Bruce imo is the easiest to master when it comes to juggles and he’ll help you realize that juggles aren’t such a duelling task.
launcher, 3,3, b+4,3,4. Take your time. This combo is not frame specific. You have all day to hit confirm. I guarantee you’ll master it before the week is up(even if you train for 5 minutes a day).
The standard formula of most 2D fighting games today seem to have shifted from SF2 to Guilty Gear standards. Highly cancellable normals, air dashes, combo lengtheners, combo breakers, air combos(both characters in the air), big ass supers. I wouldn’t say that they are too chain heavy, but I will say that there aren’t enough new traditional fighters. Now, imo I suck just as much at crazy fighters as I do in traditional fighters but when you’re losing in ST it isn’t because the opponent is covering you with 9354+HS:FRC~dash~cr.SxxInstant Air Dash~what is Pi squared cancelled into Hail Storm, Stomp Demon. Sorry if I exaggerated a tad.