Seems like a trend among every new popular fighting game today that the system and game mechanics are heavily based on or revolve around chain combos. GG, Melty Blood, Arcana and even that fan-made Monster game all seem to share this style of system. easy button cancels and links, majority of specials and supers can easily buffered of chains etc.
Are days where links and chains were much harder or required expert timing gone for good? Will we never an ST or even 3S/CVS2 type game being released anymore or are faster paced games the way of the future? Are you cool with the direction majority of new and popular fighting games seem to be headed?
What do you guys think? Particularly you old school gamers. Do modern game mechanics in fighters turn you off from playing the newer releases?
That’s the thing, though. Not all of the combos you see in those games are easy to pull off. GG being the most difficult out of the new “fast paced” fighters out there, it’s the system that really restricts any scrub from getting really good in just 10 minutes. It’s a technical game all around when you look past the combos. There’s more to those games than just combos. The combos are just the clincher when you KNOW you have the opportunity to hit them off.
And in those games, execution is KEY to those combos. You’re not just simply tapping buttons and cancelling easily mid-match. You’re inputing a ton of commands and inputting cancels all at the same time.
Think of it this way: You need good hand skills, like in MvC2, to play these games. They make look simple from a spectator’s standpoint, but they’re really difficult.
Everything personally just seems so random in some of the modern fighters. I personally prefer the style of 3S/ST to the current “wave” of 2D fighters. But I can appreciate a good fighter no matter what the style.
Maybe this is the old-schooler in me, but give me a game that rewards brains/game knowledge/yomi over a game that puts too much emphasis on execution. The current crop of games really seems to skimp on the requiring of skill outside of combo execution. I think this is one reason SS Special/Tenka get such a warm reception from the old-schoolers.
I tend to like new school combo system as it depends on position and gives you enough freedom to make up your own useful combos and changing them in the middle of the combo as you see the position of the enemy getting hit. For example with GGXXS sol, you can see the height of the enemy and according to that do just slash or slash-hard slash or slash dj slash so you will be just at the right position for clean hit sidewinder. This is much more interesting then c.mk xx super and kills the phrase “dial-a-combo”.
But it doesn’t mean we don’t need new “oldschool” games to come out as well…
You’re right about this. For GG for example the game is more than just the combos, there’s alot to consider. I know because I’ve recently started playing it practiced a little, got my basic dash 2P x3, 5S, 5HS, 632146HS Anji shit down and thought I was ready to take on the world. Needless to say that I went to an arcade and got owned.
But I mean the fact that a combo like that could be ‘mastered’ by someone like me in a couple minutes is what I’m getting at a little. And it’s not like that combo does pitiful damage either. yeah again GG isnt solely about that combos, but any whiff or mistake by my opponent and they could’ve eaten that shit from me.
Btw I’m not for one side or the other. I like some ST and my Satsuki in Melty Blood, no biased here. I’m just trying to gauge thoughts.
Tataki made a good point about positioning and all the options you get. It’s really a mixed bag of options. It’s just a matter of knowing when to use this stuff to punish. Well, a lot of combos can be mastered easily. I learned how to Proxy Cancel Guy’s kick super off FF Chain in A3 in just 20 minutes. For anyone that has played fighters for a long time, these combos are easy to learn because we already know the BS behind combos and how to time them.
There’s always gonna be one combo that is difficult to learn compared to the rest.
Theoretically I hate the idea of easily mashable games, however I’ve been getting in MB a lot lately, such that I don’t really care much about 3s. Its been kind of nice because I haven’t had to dedicate as much time execution wise to the game as I did for 3s, but I am still able to have deep competitive play, and it feels fresh. So I guess my answer would be, I don’t mind this kind of game, however I’d hate to see every fighting game turn out like this.
3s is intimidating for noobs IMO because its so slow paced and methodical. there isn’t very much random shit you can do, except for maybe with akuma and ibuki.
but GGXX is definitely very technical, so much so that I quit because I couldn’t figure it out.
Actually, I think the current style of utilization over execution is a godsend for the fighting genre. I don’t want to be stuck practicing one frame links for hours on end to be able to do decent damage. I want combos that are easy to do, but are worthless unless you can’t utilize them properly. Fighting games should be about the mind games, not rediculous execution. This is actually why I play Faust in Guilty Gear. His combos are rediculously easy to perform, which allows me to concentrate solely on outplaying my opponent. This is also why I play Alex in 3S and Nrvnqsr Chaos in Melty Blood.
vampire savior pretty much originated chain comboes…or KI i dont follow that game though
anyways i think the dial-a-combos is created to help new people
i mean think about it
EVERYONE knows street fighter…and to a lesser extend king of fighters…you know what ryu can do just by seeing him.
now you got some new japanese game coming out and you dont knowwhat the fuck is going on…oh shit A.B.C combos! A,B,C,qcf+A combos too!
this game seems simple and easy…and your into it eventually you’ll find out the subtle layers to the game like FRCing and Homing Cancelling…
IMHO i think its to help people get into the game since at the inital moment they cant really relate imagine you see some crazy ass vampire rollerblading chick
5 minutes later your doing rowdy ass combos and shit
now
imagine playing 3S for the first time and seeing…Q and thinking man that dood looks crazy…you’d never want to play that game again haha
Yeah, but that’s a real suboptimal combo. It’s like if you’re outplaying someone in ST who can do all kinds of super-tight links and low short x 2 into super by punishing their whiffs with low roundhouse and seeing their hit/throw mixups, your ability to use the less damaging option well doesn’t really say anything about ST – your competition, maybe.
I think it’s actually mostly an aesthetic thing, you can do lazy, easier “almost as good” tactics in old games too but if you were new to the genre and had two fighting games side-by-side, one of which had all of this crazy thirty-hit shit you could just kind of make up even if it wasn’t what the pros were doing and one of which was more along the lines of links and three-hitters, which do you think you’d pick? It’s a tougher call for someone like you with actual fighting game knowledge, but try to picture some dude off the street.
I think I know what you’re getting at, though, and I really would like to see new games that work off of the same kind of concepts that made ST so great rather than every new game just being Guilty Gear with progressively littler girls.
That’s really not true; there are a ton of positional guessing games to take into account in Guilty Gear and lots of “footsie” actually goes on and although I’m not really any good at MBAC at all and have never played Arcana Heart I’m sure the same goes for those two. I think the problem is that the people who play these games tend to be younger or newer to fighting games, so they don’t have the same grounding in SF strategy that old-schoolers do.
Again, if I were some anime nerd just now getting into Guilty Gear and watching stronger players or (especially) videos of them, which do you think I’d be more likely to notice – that this Bridget player keeps I-no out of the range of her 6P while staying close enough to react to her approaching or retreating – but only if she doesn’t have meter yet – or that when he hits her he does some fourteen-hit combo that hurts a bunch?
And then if I learn that fourteen-hit combo and play against someone with stronger SF fundamentals than me who doesn’t practice the game, any time I touch him I’m going to be doing three to four times the damage he is, right? He’s going to have to outplay the fuck out of me to stand a chance, even though he’s actually much better at everything but these peripheral gimmicks I bit from better players. So until I fight level competition, I might not even be aware of how weak my gameplan actually is.
I’m not hot shit at GG or anything but I’ve had a lot of new players ask me for advice and seen this exact thing happen several times. I’ve also seen people on the other side of this scenario give up on the game because it’s “bullshit” or it’s “all about combos” because from their perspective, they’re doing all of this tricky mindgame and zoning shit and outplaying this assclown 90% of the match and he’s just trying to land these one or two stupid combos he knows the whole time. Really all they want to do is play Street Fighter without going through this stage of rote combo memorization/learning complicated autopilot traps before they can compete. Which is fine. Street Fighter is awesome.
i’ve always been turned off GG because it seems like you can’t even begin playing until you’ve spent hours in training mode getting down your character’s combos. for all the shit people give marvel about being execution-intensive i think it’s actually easier than GG - most of your b&b combos aren’t too hard, and if you can’t rom or whatever you can always just do resets instead. i think any difficulty in execution in marvel is actually necessary, because even in high level matches you occasionally see guys flub combos, or end a combo early to reset rather than go for the guaranteed damage, which seems to be something you don’t see much in any other game.
honestly what turns me off more is nonsensical damage scaling. in SF2 and KOF, more hits = more damage, so you can intuitively understand which combo is better. i appreciate why damage scaling is necessary in some games, but I wish they’d make it more intuitive, so i don’t have to compare combos in training mode just to discover which is better.
ummm BS
Read my previous post. This shit doesn’t come from training mode but from vs battle experience only.
You can start with launcher into ks dj sh special on your very 1st day of the game, and build from there.
But in 3S when you can’t hit confirm super out of c.mp or c.lk c.lk with ken then you have nothing…
