I live in Norwich and I can assure you that regardless of where I lived you should not be playing any real time game on line over wireless. Get plugged in son. Ethernet through powerlines works wonders if your router is far away from your console btw.
your lame doom sayeryness is correct; the internet is the single most important consideration from a profit perspective/ community growth perspective.
You don’t get my point, you can’t play someone interstate or internationally and not expect some degree of lag, people had this assumption that GGPO meant 0 frames of input lag at all times and no noticeable rollback, and got angry at 3SOE, and now SFxTK’s rollback is getting the same flak.
well that is a nice explanation, but there are glaring gaps in your assessment. and fwiw, i’m a developer as well, but not a game developer.
COD (on consoles) doesnt run on a server. it is all peer to peer like the majority of XBL games. one of the players in the match is the host and hosting the actual match.
and on top of that, regardless of what i see on my screen and if it’s what is different than that is “actually” happening, i still hear the sounds of what I see on my screen in COD.
COD is actually a perfect example, where i’ve seen countless times where i am aiming square on a guy and unload a clip straight into him, and then he turns to me, fires one shot, and i die. then on the kill cam, it shows me not hitting him at all, or him aiming at me and killing me before my shots hit him.
however … the sound is fine the entire time - during what i see “live” and when it shows what actually happens on the kill cam after I die.
that is what i don’t get - simply play the sounds what what they are showing me visually on my screen, regardless of what is “actually” happening at the time.
Back on CoD, FPS’s use less bandwidth than fighting games, fighting games are one of the few genres that has 15+ updates per second as the norm when FPS go with 10/sec (which is why they tell you to target under 100 ping). That’s also why you have many more people in a FPS. Not to mention if the host lags you lag and it does not perform like a “rollback” code similar to this. The only reason CoD was mentioned was because it’s a clear example of noticable desyncs of clients where something completely different can be happening on other clients than your own, not a comparison of netcode.
You should know these things already if you are a developer. Anyone experienced knows first hand that things may look extremely simple from the outside but can be very complex and affected by many different systems. Especially network programming.
Not to mention you tell me there are gaps in my assessment and your only “gap” you mentioned is mentioning how CoD does not run on a server, when SFxT does not either. Ironic that you have gaps in your assessment of my post when you accuse me of having gaps in mine…
And I already explained why the sounds are not playing, the data required to play is obviously not being sent reliable. As an example in programming terms, think of it like a overloaded function. If you need to pass 3 variables in to the function to play sound properly, and only recieve 1 or 2 from your opponent, what’s going to happen?
i never said SFxT was running on a server, i know it’s not, it’s p2p. you are the one that said COD’s data goes from one player, to the server, back to the player.
and your example about an overloaded function has absolutely no relevance and is a bad comparison. i know what ‘not enough data being sent’ means, but like i said, there is enough data to display stuff visually on my screen, so the sounds should generate based on what i’m seeing.
Hmmm, I think this could cause some serious confusion in fighter world… with your method… the sound clips of a super/ultra might be played despite the fact that the super/ultra never came out.#
resulting in a 10 secondish out of synch sound clip…
An overloaded function does have relevance, if something is sent unreliable you have no idea if it’s going to go through, and if it don’t go through it won’t be using the function that is required for the proper sound. RPC’s that involve unreliable data are made with overloaded functions specifically for this reason when optimization is a priority.
And as the above poster said, if they do it your way there would be sounds played that did not happen, since you can’t cut off a sound in the middle of a clip.
If you are uncomfortable with not enough sounds going off, how would you feel about too many sounds going off for moves that are not even happening? Would that really be any better?
they definitely can cut sounds in the middle of the clip, because that is exactly what is happening with this glitch some of the time.
an overloaded function that im referring to is when you have 2 functions with the same exact name that take different parameters. so unless you are referring to something else and just using the wrong terminology, then you bringing up overloaded functions has absolutely nothing at all to do with this issue.
the one thing i’m interested to know is if this this sound glitch can really be dealt with…without making online unplayable. in terms of inputs, i really like the netcode, and it’s definitely a step up from sf4. i just wish someone with a bit more knowledge on whether it’s fixable or not would chime in.
Think they’re smarter than Tony Cannon and he’s not worth whatever negligible consulting fees he requires.
Don’t test their games in real life conditions (with connection Jitter, shoddy WiFi, etc.). Instead, it’s all Lab and Japanese godlike fiber connections and similar.
Don’t pay attention to the numerous constructive criticisms in SRK message boards. Yes, there are a lot of idiots spouting nonsense, but they can be ignored, and there are a good 10% of comments that are on point.
Your first sentence is exactly correct. If the full function requires int, int, float, float to play everything properly, but the floats are sent unreliable, what happens you didnt recieve the floats and only call the function with 2 ints?
The answer to this depends on how their engine is designed, more specifically what is able to be patched and what can not be patched. Consoles have a reputation for being hard to patch unless created specifically with it in mind.
As long as resource usage is not completely on the brink, they should be able to extrapolate the possibilities at least play “something” in exchange of the sounds, even if they are not the correct sounds. But aside from that, you can’t really answer this question without knowing more about what they can patch.
Of course it’s possible without making unnecessary sacrifices. GGPO is proof of that. Capcom is just incompetent so they might just make things worst instead of better. That’s what pissed me off about their blog, the stupid ultimatum.
quote=“Spyridon, post: 6631170, member: 47109”]Your first sentence is exactly correct. If the full function requires int, int, float, float to play everything properly, but the floats are sent unreliable, what happens you didnt recieve the floats and only call the function with 2 ints?
[/quote]
are you just simply trying to say there is packet loss at the network level? if that is the case, no shit data is missing. no one is arguing if enough data isn’t sent. its the way it’s handled is where capcom needs to address the issue.
at least with the SF4 online there was no “data loss” as it seems you are saying is happening. but i guess that is part of rollback - losing data. if that is the case, capcom needs to learn how to fix this shit, or tweak it so that sound works.
but there is no way to call the function(int a, int b, float c) with only 2 ints and a float, like from the code level, because it won’t compile.
if you try to call it as function(1,2) you can’t even compile.
but if the float is garbage value, then obviously it will create an issue, but the code should handle that issue, and again, that is the area that capcom needs to address to fix this bug. obviously i don’t mean this specific function, but there is something they can try to do to fix it.
but this is for another discussion, getting way off topic here.
You obviously don’t work in network development lol, on top of the fact that you didn’t read what I posted earlier when I explained the difference. Look up reliable and unreliable data types in netcode. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_(computer_networking)
In the case of rollback netcode, it’s designed to keep things moving as much as possible without slowdown. Which means everything CAN NOT be sent “reliable”. Even less is sent reliable than other netcode types, because reliable causes slowdown and increased bandwidth usage.
And I have no idea why your talking about function calls not compiling. Sure it won’t compile if theres no function with those data types, but are you forgetting we’re talking about overloaded functions? Look at the link you pasted me again. Heres an example…
OurFunction(int a, int b, float c, float d) - This function would be called if all variables were recieved.
OurFunction(int a, int b) - This function would be called if the floats (that are sent unreliable) were not recieved.
If you are not a network programmer, I don’t know why you are trying to argue about things related to network programming with someone who is. Are you that desperate to troll capcom?