99% of my playing time on fighters the past 3 years has been online, at home, where i have sound. and sound is a MAJOR factor for me and the way i play. i use it alot more than i realize until i try playing without it. i have realized this long ago when i would play with headphones on at night listening to music when my wife is sleeping, and can’t hear sounds. it is just different.
and it’s even WORSE in the current state in that the sound isnt cut out 100%. sometimes you hear sound effects, sometimes you don’t. and that is what is throwing me off and making it awkward as shit. at least when you dont have ANY sound, you know you won’t be hearing stuff. but when you hear stuff only 25% or so of the time, your mind kind of expects to hear sounds all the time, and when you don’t it throws you off.
at least that is how i feel.
oh and speaking of sound … the music in this game is the worst music i think i’ve ever heard in any game.
SfxT vs SF4 netcode feels like this:
Against ppl with good connections the connection is even better. against ppl who I don’t have perfect circumstances with it’s way worse, to a degree of not playability. I can’t play half the ppl that I could play fine in sf4 anymore. give me 2 frames delay I can adapt to over teleport rush punches and weird stuff going on throughout the entire match.
the key is giving said GPPO lag-threshold. really, 2 frames as a buffer would makes this game throughout enjoyable.
well and that the sound simply desyncs and plays through instead of cutting out - way less noticable then the other way around.
Just played against my first lag switching dude. 3 bars at the start but it was the worst fighting game experience I’ve had since people doing similar things in SF4 and MVC3. I literally just turned off my Xbox and walked away after the first round. Game was chugging hard, and he was teleporting around like Wesker with Kazuya doing J. HK/Sweep and Heihachi’s overhead and then he’d just do like 123 super if he hit you. Shit was retarded, made me fucking salty just trying to play it. The game would straight freeze at points, swear to god.
Just about every other connection thus far has been pretty stellar though. Minor jitters here and there. I already don’t care about the audio, but then again when I played GGPO I had the emulator muted and my music blaring.
if i can play games with someone from california as my partner/host, and it plays well enough to hit confirm and block mixups…
yeah sound can really go fuck itself, i could care less about the sound if the gameplay is that solid with a connection across the fucking country. and then also between us and someone else, or even two other people. im sorry it messes up your links because you’re based on the sound of things hitting. why dont you listen to the sound of your buttons presses?
big input delay in a game with far fewer safe defensive options would be absolutely shit.
It mainly screws with my hit-confirms. I’m used to the block and hitting sounds and when the sound is not consistent it throws you off. Now I have to look at the reelback animations more. It’s just something I have to get used I guess.
I think being able to adjust input-delay would be a good solution.
no thats fine. i use sound and visual. more visual than sound but still both just make it easier. regardless its not like this is 3S and you’re doing pokes linked into super. you’re often hit confirming off of a series of jabs and shorts or target combo and honestly you have plenty of time to notice in those cases.
or capcom could, you know, FIX THE FUCKING SOUND NOT WORKING ONLINE.
can’t believe some of you think that the sound is not part of the actual gameplay. just because it’s not as big a factor as visuals are doesn’t mean it isn’t part of the gameplay.
As a gamedev myself, I can break down some situations where sound would not be transmitted.
Often times you only transfer the required data, and you have to understand that things such as animations, etc… those are just “for show” and not really happening. An example of this happening in a different game is CoD - in CoD if you shoot the gun and bullet animations happen client side, BEFORE being transferred to the server. Then if the server triggers a hit on someone, it transfers that data that someone was hit to the client, and at that point you see the “hit” animation on your client - much after the bullet animation happened on the client.
Now think of this in terms of SFxT - I’m not quite sure their full design, but I can say that in all forms of netcode that do NOT have input delay, you are getting actions on your client immediately as you press the button, and lag compensation is happening behind the scenes and covered with rollbacks. In all likeliness the sounds for hitting are not transferred until it’s decided by both sides that a hit actually occured, at which point it would normally send the data telling your client “Hey, you hit someone, make this sound”.
Of course this will beg the question of “How come my health updates then?”. Well, some things are synced base on changes. Think of this - if you have to perform a rollback that means the connection between both players is already lacking and it’s trying to “catch up”. Which means use the least amount of data possible. You can send data to the client saying “update the health to X” which would only need to transfer a single variable (which in all likeliness is a very small amount of data since it does not have to go in to “decimals” and can stay with whole numbers) . OR you can send data to the client saying "You were hit by X move (wihich is probably at least as much data as the health update) in X part of the body (which is likely at least a 2 dimensional vector that will be 2 numbers that DO need to go in to decimals - which takes more resources) and their move was canceled out of an earlier attack at X specific frame of animation (this is likely a decimal as well for correction/prediction purposes) and hit you at X (another decimal) frame of your own characters animation… and then the client would have to calculate which sound is the proper sound to play.
As you can see , that requires much more data, and in all likeliness requires even more data than that to be sent depending on situation (such as what “State” each character is in - standing, ducking, etc).
So to answer the question everyones been asking when they say “WTF sound isnt sent over the connection?!”, that’s not entirely true, you need a lot more information to decide which sound to play. And in situations where latency is lacking you want to use the least amount of data as possible. When a desync happens and the game is trying to “catch up” some things will be lost.
And for those that are wondering even more detail, there are 2 types of ways you usually send data - “reliable” and “unreliable”. Reliable data is sent in order, and checked upon recieving, if it’s not recieved properly or out of order it sends another request for the information, and the data is re-sent until it recieves everything “in order”. Which takes more bandwidth and more hardware resources, but ensures that ALL information will get through correctly. Unreliable data is sent and forgot, it’s not checked upon recieving, and if it was not recieved it does not resend. So when latency becomes an issue, the first things to be lost is the “unreliable” data, since it’s not a priority to be checked AHEAD of the things that are sent reliable.
Hope this makes sense to those who don’t understand.
basically we need to bombard the front page of srk with this post until people grow the hell up.
Now SF x Tekken may not be as well optimized as GGPO with regards to picking which sounds to play based on the limited data available… but still this guy has mainly covered the problem.
Netcode is good cuz I can hit links consistently on almost any bar connection with the same timing as offline. But online play makes me angry cuz it takes forever to load up a match, please for the love of everything, install the game to drive if you haven’t.
i’m finding it hard to take the tekken characters online due to the sound issue. sf characters aren’t a problem because i’m already used to them from previous games, so the lack of sound doesn’t really hurt me when i use an all sf team.
the netcode itself is actually really good though. just hope this sound issue is solved soon.
A lot of people use audio cues to get their combos down. A lot of people use audio cues to react to moves in-game. A lot of people like the sound. Don’t act like his reasoning is petty.
This will be the death of The FG boom again if not fixed . 99 % are online warriors that want to play on there 50 inch tvs with surround sound with hdmi cables and play Online, but the 1% basment dwelling mouth breathers kneckbearders playing on there grandmas Old standard tv with RCa jacks to not get a few frames of lag think Its a great Game to play in silence as a company to sell to the general public…But its just like when me and my 30 other basment dwellers get together a tonys garage and drink keystone light and i cant hear anyway…
if you watched final round , you could see the top 8 in a few games players going into the games options to turn up the sound to hear over the crowd because it fucks up the game…
I’m in the UK near Milton Keynes. I live in a village and my broadband comes down an old phone line 1960’s style technology.
I have played 5 games tonight and all were varying degrees of jittery nothing major but it felt like I was playing underwater from the start of each round. It was really consistent though and I never got any lag spikes. I played a few games of AE afterwards with a dude who lives in London so about 70miles away.
The first thing I noticed was the button delay, the game seemed to flow fine with no visual lag but for the first time I really noticed the button delay. SFxT does seem to make for better inputs but at the moment I cant help that think my crappy internet is going to be to low tier to handle the game.
I’m going to try plugging directly into the router but I suspect its my phone line and my distance from the nearest exchange that is the problem. If anyone is localish to me and wants to test out the connection give me a shout hopefully be a smoother connection.