Fuck bars, we need ping numbers.
seriously, we need vegas odds on something like that. I’d start betting money on it lol
@sh0ultz
I started a couple of threads on Unity for this. Might as well get people to post there too.
It’s not about combos. Combos (mostly) work fine because the timing once you hit the first button is always the same. The exception to this is combos with breaks in them (ex. FADC-ing Oni’s slash). The real problem with lag is the input delay.
Delayed actions affect things like anti-airs, footsies, counter-hit confirms, blocking/countering fast moves (Honda torpedo, Balrog rush punches, Bison slide, etc), juggle timing, and so on. Anything that requires instant reaction or a specific timing is affected by (variable) input delay.
To some degree, depending on the characters, SF4 is a lot more about hit confirms, fishing for option selects, vortex pressure, etc. It’s not as heavy on fundamentals as say SF2. That helps mask these problems. But they do affect the finer points of play in any fighting game.
the main difference I’m noticing from the sf4\mvc3 vanilla threads I made about these topics is that this perspective was NEVER on any front page of any of the FGC regular websites. For it to be a thing the developers hear, even the most mundane stream monster must be saying its HAS to be there for sfv.
That means front page srk, front page ehubs, reddit groups and anything else addresses the problems about the current version of the net-code and how bad it is. After we mention the problem, we mention how to solve it to which there is a current solution.
what would it take to get front page articles covering these net-code topics? I feel like that is the only time developers hear us.
I’m sure the netcode will be fine since the PS4 overall has better online stability.
skullgirls is amazing online, that stability was there for this generation of games. sf4\umvc3 should of been fucking fantastic online by default imo…
I feel like there is this invisible layer we have to jump through. Most of the regular players see Japan playing online, see good American players playing online and think its playable. When in actuality those players are trying to maximize their abilities by taking anything they can to get better.
stream monsters\casual audience which is well over 50% of the FGC end up perpetuating a myth that the game is playable online and then they all start saying it. I’ve ran into it literally for over 10 years on this forum and I could easily point you to the threads.
at this point, I don’t even know if Capcom realizes its a problem. They’ve never once admitted their games were bad online and they have even advertised their games being fantastic online before with umvc3. Which is easily one of the worst FG’s online I’ve probably ever touched. As bad as first attempts like HF-ing\Cvs2 on the first xbox.
at least if we punch them in the face about it now, they can’t say we didn’t ask for it and we should speak up next time.
the way skullgirls did it was genius. A good ping displayed the MS with a green color and a bad one was indicated by red. It helps technical
ontechnical people understand a good\bad connections.
SF4 netcode “kinda works” for people with horrible connections (wireless, sharing connection with other devices, shit ISPs), while rollback netcode would make the game spaz out for them like crazy
…fuck these people! :disagree:
bring rollback netcode with real ping for responsable players.
i have no faith in Capcom though, they couldn’t fix the 6 years old implementation of a delayed-based netcode on PC in the USF4 Steam version.
SFxT was straight garbage for a good while, with remaining issues after they “fixed” it (not talking about PC version).
don’t get your hopes up…
The other genius thing that Skullgirls did was have the ability to adjust the input delay before each match, once you saw the ping numbers (while also automatically recommending a delay setting for you). Capcom and Iron Galaxy dropped the ball on this when they made it so that you had to exit online and go to the options menu to change the delay level in 3SOE, VRes and MvC:O.
I seriously facepalm about this.
I’m not just talking about Capcom here but most fighting games devs STILL do this in fucking 2014.
Even namco’s ttt2 where they implemented a lot of good online features (and vastly superior netcode compared to SF4) still refuse to display actual ping numbers for christ’s sake
Like what, do they actually think the average console gamer is tech-illitirate to understand what a ping number is?
Is that going to scare away the tech-unsavvy users???
How come indie games~$15 rerelease 2D titles do it but full priced games don’t?
While I’m on this rant you know what would also be an awesome feature?
The ability to detect and filter out WIRELESS users. Or at least a kind reminder on the loading screen that says something like ‘for optimal network performance, it is highly recommended to use a wired based connection NOT wireless’ but of corse thats a huge no-no.
The only dev’s that actually ‘get it’ are like MikeZ.
but Capcom? lololol
Ping numbers should be a standard for any game. Bars are stupid, what warrants a 3 bar connection, like 60 ping? What is the actual standard of my connection to the other player other than “It’s green bro, good!”
I hope to god it’s a thing, and that more games start doing this. PC seems to do it enough, no idea why consoles barely ever do.
All right. So what steps can be taken to show capcom are thoughts about netcode?
I wonder if there a political or legal reason Capcom will not touch GGPO.
It’s more about Capcom Japan being idiots. Capcom USA is more than willing to use is.
That said, they’ve already tried their hand at their own rollback implementation, so it shows that they do know that it’s important.
I think one of my ideas went overlooked but I already thought of a way to do that. However, I can’t do it by myself. I need people who can pull it off.
Anyone arguing input delay based netcode over being able to do things on reaction is an idiot. The very least Capcom can do if we don’t get ggpo is to give us SFxT netcode.
SFxT Netcode is terrible!!!
Just letting you all know, ggpo gives you an option for input delay or rollback in the options, just turn up the delay. Honestly, there’s no excuse not to use it.
If it DOES get implemented, allow us to change the delay, depending on the ping you may want more or less rollback/input delay.
Aside from the sound issues, SFxT netcode was actually pretty decent before the patch. The patch made it worse since I believe they increased the delay threshold that the system gave you.\
IMO, aside from the sound, the only real issue with SFxT’s netcode was that you couldn’t adjust the delay threshold.
The engineer in me agrees with you, but maybe it’s a ploy to prevent players from declining people based on overly high ping standards.