Nash’s super doing chip damage is a big deal!
Nash confirmed god tier.
Can’t believe the Nash player in that video didn’t use a single anti-air aside from the occasional air throw. I wanted to see if they tweaked with his AA buttons at all. I mean he did use s.HP to stuff a cross up attempt at one point, but I’ll assume it was an accident. Since his s.HP is a CC though it could potentially be useful tech.
more like “maybe not the worst” tier haha. It didn’t do chip originally.
TBH I was actually impressed by how consistent he was with just air throw lol
His air throw is legit. It stuffs a lot of moves
my go to AAs in the beta were either upforward + throw or s.MK
anyways, should be picking a 4-day pass to NYCC tonight, gonna be spending 90% of my time at the SFV booths, gonna be playing a bunch of Nash so I’ll keep you boys posted.
Spanish makes matches so much more exciting. They shoud have EVO finals in spanish.
I saw quite a few scenarios where he got a counter hit after making the opponent block f.lk.
post shit for me to test up in here I’ll do my best.
I guess I’ll see what i can get away with in terms of f+lk.
I can’t say I’m happy with Nash winning when Capcom still has the nerfbat in their hands, but the player and the commentators manage to make Nash look as if he were the underdog against Bison (they referred Dictator as “the most broken”). So we can be relieved and let Bison players to lose sleep about their character suddenly sucking at the moment of the final beta test.
That’s why I like Chun Li also. Most people think she’s either decent or not that good. I’d rather have a character that flies under the radar and stays solid rather than have a character that everyone is eyeing for being OP or broken. In the year of 2016 that just means nerf bat is looming over your head no matter how long your reign of terror lasts.
As far as Bison I don’t really see what’s broken about him. I generally hate when people use the word broken for newer fighting games because the stuff I dealt with in older fighting games makes the stuff in these new games seem super fair. He has some good buttons and is strong as hell if he hits you, but TBH I don’t think that character has an actual mix up game until he activates V Trigger and gets outmaneuvered on the ground by most of the other cast.
He’s also free when pressured other than V Reversal or random super and making him burn V Reversal takes away from his chance to activate what he needs to mix you up (which requires 3 V Gauge bars). If you block long enough that’s all you need to make himself get pushed out of his standard pressure. His walk speed and standard dash are so telegraphed for setting up the short ranged throws in this game that there isn’t much reason not to just walk back to try and make a throw whiff. With so many command grabs you probably are better off having one since it might have better range. It’s not like he has an amazing low confirm into full combos. Just commit to blocking c.MP or s.MP which both have pushback on block.
They will likely continue to balance based on “perceived” strength and not actual strength. Any character that wins a major is getting bopped.
I’ll come right out and say that Chun Li is very good. People don’t understand her yet that’s all. She has fantastic normals in a game that is based around grounded footsies. That alone is enough to make her very good.
Add in her v trigger which I think is the best install in the game atm, then add in people figuring out shit in v trigger that leads to ridiculous combos. She’s going to be really damn good.
What I like about this game is that I can say similar things about most of the characters. Game is shaping up to be relatively balanced. I’m sure some things will need to be tweaked but so far all the characters have many powerful tools such that you can play whoever suits you and do just fine.
I was the Nash player from the spanish tournament, and here is the rest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-_c14tGSlc
I wasn’t antiairing Bison for two reasons. One, I was nervous as fuck, and second, in freeplay I noticed that Bison’s j.hp has the hitbox of a truck. Hitting him with a normal when he jumps at you at a 45º angle is really hard, and I didn’t want to risk eating a half life combo when I wasn’t sure. I also wasn’t able to hit him consistently with an air to air.
In the Vega build, I noticed Nash’s cr.mp getting beat more often. I don’t know if the hitbox was nerfed or if my timing was off. The biggest change in that build I think was the b.mk. It was extremely nerfed in range and frame advantage and b.mk xx lp boom didn’t connect. This change is reversed already.
In the online beta, you only could absorb projectiles with his v-skill if done early. Now you can absorb them hitting with the elbow, but at the cost of v-skill being a worse poke. I think they moved back it’s hitbox. St.mk target combo is also a lot worse and doesn’t hit most of the time as the hitbox is small and really high. It was fun pressuring with the st.mk st.hk target combo before.
As alredy noted, hp tragedy assault is not an overhead anymore, and his st.lk is severely nerfed, almost useless outside the target combo. But remember that Nash retains his ability to combo from lights to mediums thanks to his targets, and that’s something that I think only he can do right now. That’s a big thing. I don’t really know how to use the tragedy assaults. The ex one can be used to hit confirm from cr.lp and then cancel to v-trigger to do a decent combo, but that’s about it with the knowledge I have now. I got lp tragedy assault by mistake two times in the tournament when canceling into lp boom, and it surprised me how fast it was and it’s low recovery. Maybe it connects from b.mk now?
F.lk is really buffed from the online beta, and it was already buffed at the Vega build. In the online beta it was punisable on block, but not anymore. I was abusing the hell out of it in the tournament, as I knew that my opponents weren’t used to that. But hp boom’s frame advantage is nerfed hard. St.hp xx hp boom, b.mk doesn’t connect in the corner anymore.
He has a second crush counter in st.hp, but I really don’t know how to use it. In the Vega build it was useless, but right now you can try to pressure with st.hp xx lk moonsault and it connects on counter hit. I haven’t found anything more, but I couldn’t try lots of things. Maybe st.hp xx ex moonsault connects for really good damage, but I don’t know. His f.hp crush counter is also nerfed, and you can’t dash and combo anymore, as the opponent gets reset before that, even with dash st.lp.
Overall I’d say that Nash is a really good character. He is really good in your face and just outside cr.mk range, because it’s really difficult to challenge his far pokes, f.mk, f.hk, f.hp and now f.lk. I feel that his weakest range is at cr.mk range, when other characters can poke + cancel him with ease, and he really doesn’t have a scary tool to deal with that. Cammy is another story though, I really don’t know how to deal with his cannon strike other than blocking it or doing an early ex scythe. I’m sure she is his hardest matchup right now.
Fair enough. Aside from that you showcased some really good Nash gameplay and we’ve been starved of that for weeks now.
With all you’ve said in mind:
- Try messing with LP Tragedy Assault. The startup and recovery looks to have been changed, just throw it out, use it in block strings, etc. Might be a decent move if it’s safe and fast.
- Test his anti-airs, his best in the beta were c.MP, c.HP and Air-throw, since then c.MP got nerfed, they’ve tweaked his moves some more so c.MP might have improved again.
- Also maybe use EX Moonsault Slash. This move was so bad in the beta up until the Mika build, I find it hard to believe they’d keep it the same, maybe it was also tweaked.
- f+HP recovery was buffed in the Karin build onwards it looks like, could you test the extent of this? It being a Crush Counter and having good range along with being relatively safe may make it a really good move now.
- And is EX Scythe still an ass reversal and anti-air? I’m curious.
I know it’s pretty hard to test specific stuff in this kind of environment where you get kicked off the setups in a few games, if you can answer just 1 or 2 of these then many thanks.
yeah, I didn’t find myself being able to test much during line fighter V. I was also mostly playing randoms or my friend who hadn’t touched the game much, so when I went to Nash it was just steam rolls; landing my jump-ins, landing my meaties, etc. thank you for the concrete list, though, since it’ll be easier to keep in mind what I should fuck around with. on top of all that you mentioned, I need to try out crouch lights into target combos.
c.mp seemed to work just fine as AA and for general pressure/meaty.
booms don’t ‘feel’ as good (HP in particular), and I wasn’t able to v-trigger cancel the booms (which is bullshit I think). didn’t actually get a a chance to go for the classic v-trigger nj. RH juggle combo but I’m sure it’ll come along at some point.
s.mk still a very solid anti-air. V-skill, c.mk, and sweep seemed unchanged. s.mp might be a little shittier, hard to say. was still able to do c.hp into back+mk reliably as a meaty and punish
c.lk or c.lp into s.lp>s.mp target combo works, but you have to be close of course.
f+HP definitely faster. I got one crush counter off it and I was only able to react with a f+RH, pretty sure it only reached/comboed because the opponent was in the corner. it causes crumple; i followed up bazooka knee one time and they just got reset =(
f+lk–after the opponent blocked this, I was able to make them block a jab afterwards every time. however, one time I got counter hit out of my own jab after HITTING with bazooka knee so idk. it’s kinda not bad to get under a jump, though. it’s fast and reaches far so it will be useful in some way for sure
c.hp worked as anti-air, but they mave have increased pushback or my timing/spacing was off because I was whiffing b+mk afterwards sometimes–wasn’t having any problems in the beta.
c.mk feels nerfed, who knows though. same with HP (and possibly LP/MP) booms. just felt slower and less reliable for buying space than in the beta, but then again I was playing better players offline, so it makes sense for projectiles to not feel as good.
sweep is still really solid. caught lots of people due it its range. CH c.mp was still linking to sweep really easily.
v-skill is still amazing, doesn’t seem like they touched it. got a ton of mileage out of it.
EX moonsault seems to work a bit better–travels faster and the arc isn’t as whacky, all the hits connect, and I threw it out and saw it thrown out a few times and nash was able to block (people were definitely trying to punish it because it looked unsafe and it takes a while to block all the hits lol). pretty cool. HK moonsault also decent for going over fireballs.
EX scythe still seems ass. it’s fast, like if they mistime a meaty or something you can definitely get some nice wake-up damage from it, but it gets stuffed, and I actually ate a command grab between the two kicks on block lol =(
tragedy assault I don’t understand at all. HP is not an overhead, and you’ve got moonsaults to go over fireballs slightly more reliably, so I guess it’s just for the meter drain? tried to use LP tragedy assault a bit, it’s definitely faster, but it has no range (whiffed a lot off normal cancels) and I wasn’t able to combo it. it also seems to causes more pushback than LK moonsault. my best guess at this point is to use it to switch up the timing/pressure if they start beating the LK moonsault, but I didn’t really get to establish anything like that. maybe it can be used to go over lows or counter-poke or something. I’ll try using it on wake-up lol
he’s still free on wake-up and shit. I dunno, he’s probably at the same strength overall as in the beta, doesn’t seem like any of the changes were too dramatic or anything. still plays the same. IMO he has the tools to handle anyone, his weakness is really on wakeup, but he has a great v-reversal, and if you have v-trigger you always have the potential to set-up an opening/create mindgames. he’s still the most fun character to me right now, definitely would have kept using him in the second beta.
edit: fireball definitely feels nerfed, or I have just really flubbed my spacing since the beta. was getting jumped in on a lot. I threw plenty of them to test things out, and even with LP boom I was eating reaction (projectile already halfway to the opponent) jump-ins from like max jump range (too far for the opponent to combo into anything other than sweep)
c.mp xx boom xx air v-trigger into jump in combo still works
Questions:
As of the last build, how is Sonic Boom supposed to be used in this game? I’m still scratching my head regarding the logic behind making it motion instead of charge, even for offensive purposes. Technically, the advantage is to be able to pull a sudden Sonic Boom while approaching the opponent on the ground, but since the typical Sonic Boom with motion would be 3DS Guile levels of broken, the logic is to add a lot of startup to keep it as a pressure tool. It sounds all well until people finds out leaving a huge frame gap in the offense when performing the Sonic Boom that asks for a reversal or a mashed normal to stuff it before it comes out. Then, the best way to use Sonic Boom is to retreat and flinging it from afar… which is pretty much like holding back to charge. Besides, it seems to me that since you never want to be at more than mid screen, then in the most reasonable distance to throw a Sonic Boom I would rather go with a safe Moonsault Slash. That what it looks like from watching matches, can anyone here that have actually played Nash add his insights about the Sonic Boom game?
How fast is the Critical Art? To me, it looks like a Dudley’s Rolling Thunder on steroids since it also hits airborne opponents. Can it be used to punish normals that people like to spam because of the pushback?
Can you still air throw after v triggering his ex throw move?
Another one: Nash’s V-Reversal reminds me of KoF’s Guard Cancel Roll and looks like it may be able to punish on block some lenghty multihitting moves like Chunli’s CA or Vega’s Rolling Crystal Flash. Anyone here has done this successfully?