Nash Combo/Tech Thread

[Heavy_Mental]

Nash is at +7 after quickrise Tragedy Assault.

Given the spacing in midscreen you’re still negative frames after a forward dash (17f total) and Moonsault Slash. The various normals and specials will lose out to various character normals due to start up and hitboxes.

No shit? Literally just posted to clarify the exact frame advantage. Of course he’s negative after a forward dash; he’s only at +8 in that situation. For the record, I don’t like going for midscreen TA either. Not worth the loss of damage and oki. Only time I’ll bother with it midscreen is if my opponent is already stunned and I can kill with TA ender, if I get a CH cr.HP (MP TA and HK SS do the same damage), or if my opponent’s sitting on CA.

EDIT: Misinformation. Not +7, but plus+8. Tested against Chun-Li’s 3f cr.LP. Set the dummy to quickrise and do reversal 3f cr.LP, then tried various normals. 3f cr.LP got counterhit by cr.HP (9f) and LK Sonic Scythe (10f) but traded with EX Sonic Boom (11f).

Corner cross under I found off of HK SS (skip to about 20s in):
Works on any recovery type but Nash has to be close enough to them in the corner so a confirm such as cr. mp st. mp xx HK SS won’t work. Even the lk mp target combo pushes him too far. Not sure how useful it will be because of this.

Been working on some setups but nothing too special so far. One thing I found was if they don’t quick/back rise you can immediately jump out of the corner the very slight delay hit f.MP. If it counter hits meaty enough you can link stand jab.

Cool find. I discovered a similar whiff st.HK setup except for EX Tragedy Assault a while ago. Leaves Nash at approximately +8 on quickrise and can’t be back-rolled. Didn’t know it worked with HK SS.

[Heavy_Mental]

EDIT: Double post. I’m a forum scrub.

[andeRK83]

can the op please update the top post with all the optimized combos?
or maybe we need to start a new thread?

[trinifella1]

Good stuff on the thread so far. Especially loving those CC s. Hp combos.

People seem to fall alot for the cr. Hp traps because of its animation I guess. Amazing normal

[GroundedSF]

Random pick and mix of combos from playing around in training mode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN-pL_bC5I4

[gillianseed]

can the op please update the top post with all the optimized combos?
or maybe we need to start a new thread?

I second this

Some oki would be appreciated, thanks for all the info guys!

[Krazysh0t]

You might simply be doing the throw too early. Either that or throws don’t have priority over normals when they come out on the same frame. Would’t be surprised if that were true. Lot of grappler mains complaining about getting jabbed out of command grabs.

I think this may be true. I’ve been jabbed out of a few throws myself. Though that could always just be lag.

[EmptyXzero]

can the op please update the top post with all the optimized combos?
or maybe we need to start a new thread?

I second this

Some oki would be appreciated, thanks for all the info guys!

hey guys sorry for the late
Response I have been slammed with work/school. I will be updating all the combos + new combos, counter hit setups, throw setups, basic gameplans, and frame traps. I will also write a basic guide to creating an up close offense and corner pressure. Thank you for your patience hopefully updates late tonight or tomorrow!

~ShotoBro

[MastaSW]

Hey is the 1st post organized and updated with the current optimized combos? I want to know before I start burning them into my muscle memory. Cause I see other variations, mistakes and corrections from people throughout this thread. I don’t want to be wasting my time learning the wrong things

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BJ7b8VZFgMmZFAmSKoILeM-qRldhtV9DhPjKxOJHnW8/edit#

I keep this google doc updated for the most part so you can use it as a go to list for combos, match up information, etc… I haven’t listed damage and stun values yet.

Awesome thank you very much. If you can keep that updated with the optimized stuff you will be a GodSend to this Nash thread. Thanx again

[Killey]

Random pick and mix of combos from playing around in training mode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN-pL_bC5I4

Thanks for posting this. I’ve added some of the combos and setups in this video in the google doc. I’ve also linked your video in the google doc itself.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BJ7b8VZFgMmZFAmSKoILeM-qRldhtV9DhPjKxOJHnW8/edit#

[Corbear41]

That’s not optimal. Best 2-bar and V-Trigger CC st.HP combo to my knowledge is st.HP xx EX Moonsault Slash->b.MK xx LP Sonic Boom xx f.VT, j.HP, cr.HP->st.MP xx EX Sonic Scythe. 433 damage and 670 stun.

I found a slightly higher damage 2 bar v-trigger combo.

CC st.hp xx EX Moonsault Slash ->b.mk/st.mp xx EX TA -> f.VT -> j.hk (must hit high in air) -> mk.scythe. 442 damage 580 stun also some health steal from TA

If you ever do v trigger combo extensions[ EX TA -> f.vt -> nj.hk -> mk.scythe ] does more damage but less stun than EX scythe juggles from all my testing so far and you can also combo into ex TA from lights unlike hk.scythe.

An example of a quick punish combo st.jab xx EX TA -> f.vt -> j.hk -> mk.scythe 261 damage, 325 stun

You can also combo air throw off EX TA -> f.vt for maximum swag

[DickChang]

Hey is the 1st post organized and updated with the current optimized combos? I want to know before I start burning them into my muscle memory. Cause I see other variations, mistakes and corrections from people throughout this thread. I don’t want to be wasting my time learning the wrong things

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BJ7b8VZFgMmZFAmSKoILeM-qRldhtV9DhPjKxOJHnW8/edit#

I keep this google doc updated for the most part so you can use it as a go to list for combos, match up information, etc… I haven’t listed damage and stun values yet.

I got you bro.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vtvNqCCjx-cvsAjXkliPiDT6JCWtZFFPaq_NqOsv0rE/edit?usp=sharing
For the combos with empty damage/stun listings… I couldn’t do the combos

[Killey]

Quick question for everyone here. WIth the hard work from @DickChang I could add the damage and stun values to the google doc itself. However, I tried to simplify all of the permutations of a combo to a single line so you didn’t have to see a new line for the same combo but with a different strength ender or a super cancel. If I add the damage and stun values I would need to have a new line for each permutation of the combo and you end up with a long list of combos, which I wanted to avoid. I can simply just link DickChang’s google doc for damage and stun values for a simple compromise but let me know what you want for the google doc.

@DickChang here are the missing damage and stun values

(383 dmg, 660 stun) s.HP(CC), walk f, s.HP xx L.SB xx f.VT, j.HP, c.HP, s.MP xx H.SS
(392 dmg, 660 stun) s.HP(CC), walk f, s.HP xx L.SB xx f.VT, j.HP, c.HP, s.MP xx EX.SS
(383 dmg, 630 stun) s.HP(CC), walk f, s.HP xx L.SB xx f.VT, j.HP, c.HP, s.MP xx EX.TA
(545 dmg, 630 stun) s.HP(CC), walk f, s.HP xx L.SB xx f.VT, j.HP, c.HP, s.MP xx M.SS xx CA

Corner:
(376 dmg, 640 stun) s.HP(CC), walk f, s.HP xx L.SB xx b.VT, j.HP, s.HP xx H.SS
(388 dmg, 640 stun) s.HP(CC), walk f, s.HP xx L.SB xx b.VT, j.HP, s.HP xx EX.SS
(336 dmg, 610 stun) s.HP(CC) xx H.SB, c.HP xx s.VT, c.HP, s.MP xx H.SS
(355 dmg, 610 stun) s.HP(CC) xx H.SB, c.HP xx s.VT, c.HP, s.MP xx EX.SS
(510 dmg, 570 stun) s.HP(CC) xx H.SB, c.HP xx s.VT, c.HP, s.MP xx M.SS xx CA
(273 dmg, 430 stun) s.HP(CC) xx H.SB, EX.TA
(233 dmg, 390 stun) s.HP(CC) xx L.SB, c.HK

Some of these combos I got the wrong strength of the Sonic Boom written down. I fixed those mistakes and optimized some of them.

These two I can’t do because I can’t figure out the spacing of the f.Fierce and which strength of sonic boom to use. I was eyeballing the strength used from the video but it doesn’t look right at all.

() f.HP(CC), L.SB, EX.SS
() f.HP(CC), L.SB, c.HK

[DickChang]

I updated my doc with a few combos using the bigger damage from @Corbear41
@Killey – Yeah I had to separate them line by line to make the damage for each one readable. It would be hard to put all the different enders on one line. I’ll add those damage and stun values you have for the combos I couldn’t do.

[EmptyXzero]

Hey is the 1st post organized and updated with the current optimized combos? I want to know before I start burning them into my muscle memory. Cause I see other variations, mistakes and corrections from people throughout this thread. I don’t want to be wasting my time learning the wrong things

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BJ7b8VZFgMmZFAmSKoILeM-qRldhtV9DhPjKxOJHnW8/edit#

I keep this google doc updated for the most part so you can use it as a go to list for combos, match up information, etc… I haven’t listed damage and stun values yet.

Hello Killey,

Great Google doc! Please do check out my updated original post and let me know if it is useful to you. I wanted to correct one small mistake on your close range strategy section where you mention s.lp and c.mp are +3 on block.

Cr.mp is only +2 on block but indeed st.lp is +3. Standing lk and crouching hard punch are +3 on block and are also essential to the frame trap/throw game. Thank you for your efforts!

[Killey]

Hello Killey,

Great Google doc! Please do check out my updated original post and let me know if it is useful to you. I wanted to correct one small mistake on your close range strategy section where you mention s.lp and c.mp are +3 on block.

Cr.mp is only +2 on block but indeed st.lp is +3. Standing lk and crouching hard punch are +3 on block and are also essential to the frame trap/throw game. Thank you for your efforts!

Will double check the op post later on thanks. Fixed the frame data information.

[Heavy_Mental]

Here’s me trying to be a productive and contributing member of this subforum.

Frame advantage for Nash after various knockdowns (quickrise only).

[details=Spoiler]Forward Throw: +8
Normal Tragedy Assault: +8
LK Sonic Scythe, dash forward: At least +9
Sweep, dash forward: +5
Wind Shear, forward dash: +6
V-Trigger, j.HK, LK Sonic Scythe juggle: at least +6
V-Trigger, j.HK, EX Sonic Scythe juggle: at least +20
MK Sonic Scythe, dash forward: at least +17
Corner HK Sonic Scythe, whiff LK Sonic Scythe: +3
Midscreen HK Sonic Scythe, double dash: +5
Midscreen EX Sonic Scythe, dash forward: +12
Judgement Saber, dash forward: +7
EX Tragedy Assault, st.HK side switch: At least +9[/details]

Will add values for back recovery when I stop being lazy and decide to test. Word of warning. Some values might not be correct because I don’t know how to datamine and don’t have stellar execution. Did my tests by picking Chun as the dummy and setting her to perform reversal cr.LP on quick wakeup. Got a knockdown, performed the setup, then pressed buttons with varying startup until I figured out which ones would hit and which ones would get hit. Would appreciate if someone else confirmed my findings.

EDIT: I should also add that the frame advantage after juggles might not always be that high. IIRC I did the j.HK and juggle followups as high and early as I possibly could. Results may vary if your timing is slower.

EDIT 2: Miscalculations. My math is worse than my thought. That, or more stuff has been changed since the beta than I thought. Corrected them now. Should have triple-checked before I posted.

[Zachara]

Some great work there.
So if my math is correct, midscreen Ex-Scythe, dash, f.HK should hit on the first recovered frame.
To the lab!!

[EmptyXzero]

Here’s me trying to be a productive and contributing member of this subforum.

Frame advantage for Nash after various knockdowns (quickrise only).

[details=Spoiler]Forward Throw: +8
Normal Tragedy Assault: +8
LK Sonic Scythe, dash forward: At least +9
Sweep, dash forward: +5
Wind Shear, forward dash: +6
V-Trigger, j.HK, LK Sonic Scythe juggle: at least +6
V-Trigger, j.HK, EX Sonic Scythe juggle: at least +20
MK Sonic Scythe, dash forward: at least +15
Corner HK Sonic Scythe, whiff LK Sonic Scythe: at least +9
Midscreen HK Sonic Scythe, double dash: +11
Midscreen EX Sonic Scythe, dash forward: +12
Judgement Saber, dash forward: +7
EX Tragedy Assault, st.HK side switch: +8[/details]

Will add values for back recovery when I stop being lazy and decide to test. Word of warning. Some values might not be correct because I don’t know how to datamine and don’t have stellar execution. Did my tests by picking Chun as the dummy and setting her to perform reversal cr.LP on quick wakeup. Got a knockdown, performed the setup, then pressed buttons with varying startup until I figured out which ones would hit and which ones would get hit. Would appreciate if someone else confirmed my findings.

EDIT: I should also add that the frame advantage after juggles might not always be that high. IIRC I did the j.HK and juggle followups as high and early as I possibly could. Results may vary if your timing is slower.

Thank you, good info!

[yennixoh]

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I want to better understand the use of 4mk. Does the same damage as s.mp and leaves you at 0 adv on block instead of 3. I find it more awkward to cancel from it as well. Only major difference I can find is the startup is 1 frame faster so maybe just an easier link.

I think it has more hit stun and forces stand. The greater hit stun allows for combos into Tragedy Assault.

I also started working on documenting some knockdown situations here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yt0bf66BYV1jomWMSIK5WjtF3SXZYT5oldz1OhFjngU/edit#gid=390443733

Great doc bro! Cant wait till you update the punishes section. Still dont know what to do against half the characters X__X