Nash Combo/Tech Thread

[Unlimited_1]

heres a 2 meter cc combo: s.hp ex MS st.mp m ss vtrigger(neutral) ex ss 417 damage 565 stun

Im pretty sure you can get more damage by doing HK SS instead of HK then following with vtrigger, nj.HK, EX SS

You might simply be doing the throw too early. Either that or throws don’t have priority over normals when they come out on the same frame. Would’t be surprised if that were true. Lot of grappler mains complaining about getting jabbed out of command grabs.

I thought too that I may have been doing it too early, but I try to perform the throw as soon as possible after the dash and i dont see the throw whiff animation. Curiously, at the same time I dont get counterhit.

I believe your second point might be the case so we may have to bear that in mind. Mashing jabs on wakeup may beat out most throws. Needs more testing…

[Heavy_Mental]

heres a 2 meter cc combo: s.hp ex MS st.mp m ss vtrigger(neutral) ex ss 417 damage 565 stun

That’s not optimal. Best 2-bar and V-Trigger CC st.HP combo to my knowledge is st.HP xx EX Moonsault Slash->b.MK xx LP Sonic Boom xx f.VT, j.HP, cr.HP->st.MP xx EX Sonic Scythe. 433 damage and 670 stun.

I actually think though the fact that the opponent can’t backroll recover from TA may actually be more useful than the meter stealing aspect of the move as it makes setups much easier. I also think at the moment (as this is something that people will eventually start to look for) that landing a TA that takes the opponent from over a bar to under a bar could really fuck with someones wake-up options in taking them from slightly over 1 bar during the combo but the TA ender eliminating EX move usage.

Agree with the second part about EX move denial. It’s especially useful against characters that only have metered reversals such as Karin, Rashid, and R. Mika.

Disagree with Tragedy Assault being useful for setups. Quickrise after TA only leaves Nash at +7 and the opponent is too far away for any mixups everywhere except in the corner. Even against a cornered opponent, the best setup you get is a simple frame trap/throw/bait mixup, which you could also get with HK Sonic Scythe ender anywhere on screen.

[Heavy_Mental]

I thought too that I may have been doing it too early, but I try to perform the throw as soon as possible after the dash and i dont see the throw whiff animation. Curiously, at the same time I dont get counterhit.

I believe your second point might be the case so we may have to bear that in mind. Mashing jabs on wakeup may beat out most throws. Needs more testing…

If you didn’t get counter-hit, then maybe your throw went active the same time their normal did. I’m just about to go to bed so I can’t lab it right now, but maybe throws don’t get counter-hit on their first active frame/last startup frame unlike normals.

[PrinceVegeta]

@Steakface : You said Light Moonsault was very punishable, just like standing fierce, but according to SRK’s frame data, it is +1. Is the data wrong, or am I missing something?

[Unlimited_1]

@Steakface : You said Light Moonsault was very punishable, just like standing fierce, but according to SRK’s frame data, it is +1. Is the data wrong, or am I missing something?

He means its possible for opponents to hit you out of it because of its long startup. If you rely on it too much, it may catch the opponent off guard a couple of times but eventually they will learn to interrupt it if you get too predictable. Once it does land though, it is safe on block as you mentioned and can even lead to a frame trap vs characters with no 3f normals.

[Nobus3r1]

I actually think though the fact that the opponent can’t backroll recover from TA may actually be more useful than the meter stealing aspect of the move as it makes setups much easier. I also think at the moment (as this is something that people will eventually start to look for) that landing a TA that takes the opponent from over a bar to under a bar could really fuck with someones wake-up options in taking them from slightly over 1 bar during the combo but the TA ender eliminating EX move usage.

Agree with the second part about EX move denial. It’s especially useful against characters that only have metered reversals such as Karin, Rashid, and R. Mika.

Disagree with Tragedy Assault being useful for setups. Quickrise after TA only leaves Nash at +7 and the opponent is too far away for any mixups everywhere except in the corner. Even against a cornered opponent, the best setup you get is a simple frame trap/throw/bait mixup, which you could also get with HK Sonic Scythe ender anywhere on screen.

Good to know regarding the advantage after TA. Also R. Mika doesn’t have a reversal as her EX Shoot Peach doesn’t have armor from frame 1 (same for Laura). I would also add Cammy, Necalli and Ryu to the list of character where keeping them off of EX moves as much as possible would be useful due to how much better the EX versions of their SRKs are than the regular versions.

[Heavy_Mental]

Fair point on the invincibility. I think whether a player will end a combo with TA or not against a character like Laura or Mika will depend on how they frame trap. Players players that go for meaty normals into frame traps will probably stick to HK SS whereas those who like to do delayed normals on their opponents’ wakeups might opt for TA.

[Killey]

I really don’t like the positioning lost from ending combos in TA. You pretty much reset to neutral if they opt to back tech as a forward dash seems to leave you at minus frames if they opt to quick rise or back tech. The meter drain is so minuscule and the natural progression of a match will never consistently deny an EX reversal. The corner is the only time I would consider ending a combo in Tragedy Assault as an immediate cr.Fierce will always meaty their quick rise or back tech. If the character has a reversal option it’s still too risky to end in TA in the corner. While you can get a nice meaty off of it any character with a reversal option forces a decision between opting to bait the reversal or risk getting reversal grabbed because the positioning of TA in the corner leaves you point blank to the opponent. You basically have to back dash in that scenario. I only want to meter deny off of CC f.Fierce or if my combo is going to kill and there’s still one round left.

[MastaSW]

@PrinceVegeta 6HP means foward HP and 6 vtrigger means foward vtrigger. when you see a number before a button it is the numerical version of a d pad/joystick direction. so if you need help understanding it, just look at the numberpad on a laptop and use that as a frame of reference. 8 is up, 2 is down, 6 is forward/back depending on direction character is facing, 4 is back/forward depending on character facing direction, and 5 is neutral.

Wow thanx a lot for that laptop reference cause those numbers are so confusing for pad players like myself. Awesome

[MastaSW]

(j. MK) cr.MP, b+MK xx TA takes all of the meter that the opponent gains from getting hit.
CC s.HP, ex MS, b+MK xx TA takes most of the meter that the opponent gets.
j.HK s.HP xx L. SB xx f+VT, j. HP, s.HP XX M. TA takes most of the meter that the opponent gets.

I actually think though the fact that the opponent can’t backroll recover from TA may actually be more useful than the meter stealing aspect of the move as it makes setups much easier. I also think at the moment (as this is something that people will eventually start to look for) that landing a TA that takes the opponent from over a bar to under a bar could really fuck with someones wake-up options in taking them from slightly over 1 bar during the combo but the TA ender eliminating EX move usage.

Yesssssssssssss. Amazing I need to start using these combos instead ASAP. No more St.Mp into H SS or M SS for me. I notice Infiltration only uses the St.Mp or St.Hp versions into Scythe finisher on Stun combos I think. So much to take in and organize in my brain for which combos to do and when. Then to perfect them to the point where I barely drop them is another story. Must play must practice

[MastaSW]

Hey is the 1st post organized and updated with the current optimized combos? I want to know before I start burning them into my muscle memory. Cause I see other variations, mistakes and corrections from people throughout this thread. I don’t want to be wasting my time learning the wrong things

[dehumanizer]

Here’s a combo I found for flashiness.
3 meter + VT
EX MS, s.LP, sMP, EX TA, VT, j.HK, EX SS

Alternatively, you can combo into an air grab after the VT. I don’t think I’ve seen a video of anyone doing that yet.

[Killey]

Hey is the 1st post organized and updated with the current optimized combos? I want to know before I start burning them into my muscle memory. Cause I see other variations, mistakes and corrections from people throughout this thread. I don’t want to be wasting my time learning the wrong things

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BJ7b8VZFgMmZFAmSKoILeM-qRldhtV9DhPjKxOJHnW8/edit#

I keep this google doc updated for the most part so you can use it as a go to list for combos, match up information, etc… I haven’t listed damage and stun values yet.

[Weebs]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BJ7b8VZFgMmZFAmSKoILeM-qRldhtV9DhPjKxOJHnW8/edit#

I keep this google doc updated for the most part so you can use it as a go to list for combos, match up information, etc… I haven’t listed damage and stun values yet.

Thanks for the document, some great info in there!

[str_e_ak]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BJ7b8VZFgMmZFAmSKoILeM-qRldhtV9DhPjKxOJHnW8/edit#

I keep this google doc updated for the most part so you can use it as a go to list for combos, match up information, etc… I haven’t listed damage and stun values yet.

Looks good! Thanks for linking my doc too. :tup:

[Nobus3r1]

I really don’t like the positioning lost from ending combos in TA. You pretty much reset to neutral if they opt to back tech as a forward dash seems to leave you at minus frames if they opt to quick rise or back tech. The meter drain is so minuscule and the natural progression of a match will never consistently deny an EX reversal. The corner is the only time I would consider ending a combo in Tragedy Assault as an immediate cr.Fierce will always meaty their quick rise or back tech. If the character has a reversal option it’s still too risky to end in TA in the corner. While you can get a nice meaty off of it any character with a reversal option forces a decision between opting to bait the reversal or risk getting reversal grabbed because the positioning of TA in the corner leaves you point blank to the opponent. You basically have to back dash in that scenario. I only want to meter deny off of CC f.Fierce or if my combo is going to kill and there’s still one round left.

Just want to point Tragedy Assault is a hit grab and cannot be back techrolled as it shares the property of the other command grabs in the game of only being able to normal recover or quickrise.

[Killey]

Just want to point Tragedy Assault is a hit grab and cannot be back techrolled as it shares the property of the other command grabs in the game of only being able to normal recover or quickrise.

Ah my bad on that. I’ve tested TA knockdown, quick rise, and I found myself at negative frames with a forward dash, Moonsault Slash, Forward Sonic Scythe, f.RH, f.Fierce, and f.Short. Some wake up normals will beat a lot of those options so you’re essentially back at a neutral situation.

[Heavy_Mental]

Nash is at +8 after quickrise Tragedy Assault.

EDIT: Misinformation. Not +7, but plus+8. Tested against Chun-Li’s 3f cr.LP. Set the dummy to quickrise and do reversal 3f cr.LP, then tried various normals. 3f cr.LP got counterhit by cr.HP (9f) and LK Sonic Scythe (10f) but traded with EX Sonic Boom (11f).

[Killey]

Nash is at +7 after quickrise Tragedy Assault.

Given the spacing in midscreen you’re still negative frames after a forward dash (17f total) and Moonsault Slash. The various normals and specials will lose out to various character normals due to start up and hitboxes.

[Duffy509]

Corner cross under I found off of HK SS (skip to about 20s in):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgvRI6UHf4c

Works on any recovery type but Nash has to be close enough to them in the corner so a confirm such as cr. mp st. mp xx HK SS won’t work. Even the lk mp target combo pushes him too far. Not sure how useful it will be because of this.

Been working on some setups but nothing too special so far. One thing I found was if they don’t quick/back rise you can immediately jump out of the corner then very slight delay hit f.MP. If it counter hits meaty enough you can link stand jab.