I just want to add if anyone hasn’t mentioned it, you can easily hit confirm Nash’s fierce. Very fun.
after SS if they don’t quick rise what are the set ups for normal wake up? Or do you have to commit to either the quick rise or back roll set ups?
The only setup I currently know off of SS is as follows:
cr.mp, b+mk xx m.ss h.sb xx f+trigger
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZPmkH91_kRFhgGLQY9WA8yyHQIolnCfu
Here’s a playlist. I was researching this earlier for a friend, but I figured I might as well post this for other folks too.
I’m definitely not the best player, but I’ll go ahead and share my game plan at the most basic levels. Nash has two separate styles. The far ranged style based around fireball management, and a close in rush down style that is heavily reliant on meaty setups and frame traps.
I usually begin the match by backing out to a far range and see if my opponent would be interested in shooting out some fireballs so I can get some free V trigger. I shit out booms and clip him with max ranged medium scythe for decent chip and more or less try to build critical meter. At this range Nash has great AA for punishing people who try to jump over your booms, forcing them to try to trade fireballs with you, or slowly move in and take chip damage while you build CA. If your opponent is content to feed you an entire V trigger you can easily punish fireballs on reaction.
Next is the in phase. I try not to go in until I have at least some bars to spend. A V trigger or enough CA for an EX special. Once you are in close you should try poking it out with your opponent. at this range your AA options are a lot worse. in fact, the further your opponent gets behind you with his jump the worse they get. If you get knocked down and they are jumping straight over you for a cross up you have no recourse but to block or challenge it with stand jab which has a pretty lousy risk/reward. Your goal here in the scramble is to confirm with your lights into a knockdown. jab, jab, lk scythe. cr jab, cr jab, lk scythe. or TC2, cr jab, lk scythe. are what I’ve been using. It is also worth mentioning that on counter hit with forward MK and forward roundhouse you can link into standing jab and lk scythe for a kd. Once you have that kd you can get in and create a better situation for yourself with a meaty setup or a frame trap that can lead into real damage. You can also use V trigger to create solid punish damage off heavy pokes such as crouching fierce, or forward roundhouse.
Economy: Usually I save my CA for super which is easy to confirm into and deals the best damage per meter spent than any combination of EX, but when I do choose to use EX in combos, here is where I use it. Whenever I’m confirming a light combo into lk scythe an EX scythe provides pretty decent damage gains and the flight time allows for a better oki setup. I also use EX moonsault after a standing fierce CC as it adds respectable damage over just using a light moonsault. It also punishes the living shit out of that wake up DP and the more damaging and flashy your punish combo is the less likely they are to do that obnoxious shit again.
V trigger is probably the most important bar for Nash as it provides your only real escape from pressure in your V reversal, and access to high damage combos off a confirm and more punishing punishes. Fortunately Nash has a short trigger gauge and a v skill that is very profitable to use to gain V meaning you can have your trigger available very often. As soon as I have trigger I try to use it at the next available possibility whether its a strong punish or creating a 50/50 teleport mix up with a slow boom.
i’m using the guide to get better and i’m stuck at cross up mk xx cr.mp xx stand mp xx hp xx lk lk wont come out and the st mp hp seems hard to time
Trying to do meter-denial combos with Nash; What are some good combo strings to end with Tragedy Assault? I’m aware of two right now:
cr MP, b+MK xx TA
f+HP, ex Moonsault, MP xx TAhttp://forums.shoryuken.com/t/nash-combo-tech-thread/177888
I’m confused how one cancels into Tragedy Assault though, maybe it’s something weird? Like I know to SS xx CA you have to QCB SS then only CCQ CA once to cancel into it, is there something like that going on with DP stick movements? Or do you just need to be quick on the joystick
No, you just need to be quick on the stick to do b+mk xx TA
CH cr.HP->st.HP xx MP Tragedy Assault is a good one. The combo with MP TA ender does the same damage as HK Sonic Scythe ender (273) but does 80 less stun (395 vs. 475).
If you want a more consistent option you can get into a light TA off any back MK, so for example Jumping MK, Crouching MP, back MK, light TA. You can also get it off a crouching MP so cr MP, cr MP, light TA after the jump in or whatever opportunity you create for yourself.
Here is a list of the meaties and frame traps Ive been using.
Frame traps.
- standing jab into standing fierce. This shit will CC if they hit a button, so you should be buffering light moonsault immediately. Even if you get blocked on the fierce you should still let the moonsault rip since while they are both unsafe as fuck the moonsault might get you hit once or twice but a full punish on that blocked standing fierce will eat your ass alive. You can land the CC fierce at any range that your jab connects, so jabbing twice is fine.
- standing jab standing jab crouching mp. This shit is pretty safe. even if you whiff Nash’s stubby arm dosent reach that far out making it tough to punish. Unfortunately they get pushed pretty far so you cant confirm into the combo of your dreams. mk scythe is your only follow up unless you wanna burn for ex scythe. Even then the range is so far that you miss one of the hits so the damage isn’t worth imo.
- light moonsault into TC 1. I’m not too sure if this is truly tight but I wanted to mention it. It doesn’t feel as solid as the others, but the worst punish I’ve had from this is trading jabs. This seems to really open people up for some reason though. People feel a lot more likely to want to hit buttons after a special move than a normal to me so this particular trap gets challenged a lot. Don’t overuse this though. Your moonsault will get shit on by AA of all varieties. if it actually hits them though, its pretty safe.
Meaties. I want to preface this by saying all of these setups are for fast rise. I haven’t had a lot of experience with players delaying wake up online or using the back slide.
- Forward throw into forward LK. The forward knee gets its frames into their face. This is pretty safe on block and beats them out if they were hitting a button. There isn’t a follow up for this though, but its the only option I could find after a forward throw. At least they just have to block and Nash can get back in range to use his stumpy ass arms again.
- any combo ending with lk scythe, whiff jab forward fierce. If they get up hitting a button they get shit on with a CC. forward fierce CC isnt all that great though. Heavy TA is your best option for follow up unless you have super on deck. midscreen only for this one folks.
- point blank sweep into forward MP. This is a solid setup. Not only is the meaty late enough as they rize that you can link jab after it it also pushes them far enough to make the overhead pretty safe. Very nice option if you happen to land that deep sweep.
- Forward throw into standing fierce. This is a corner only meaty with all the same bonuses of the standing fierce frame trap. If they hit a button you get a point blank CC leading into a wet dream combo. Just like the frame trap though beware to always cancel this into lk scythe even if he blocks. Anything he uses to punish you in the air could have been ten times as bad if you were still on the ground. …I suppose its also worth mentioning that you can always use V trigger to cover your ass if any of these standing fierce traps get blocked, but I would let it rip at least once to see what your opponent’s capabilities are.
It does bear mentioning that keeping your opponent meterless isn’t all that realistic though even if you use TA as every ender. you build CA so much that keeping them drained just wont happen. In fact any combo with light TA as an ender will probably build more than you steal just from the other hits. It is a great way to build meter for yourself though, or to deny super to a character like bison for whom it is his only invincible reversal.
This frame trap is only effective against characters with 4 frame lights or slower. Anyone with a 3f jab will trade with your st.LP every time. Also not difficult to time at all.
I tested this setup against Chun. Bazooka Knee leaves you at -3. It’s not easy to punish but you’re essentially frame-trapping yourself. If you want to force your opponent to block something after a back throw you could just do f.HK. If you want to mix them up, then you have to take a risk and dash or jump in.
This setup seems decent if you have a read on your opponent’s tendencies and know they like to quick-rise. Downside is if they back roll, you just whiffed your single slowest recovering normal and opened yourself up to pressure, maybe even a punish. I personally prefer to simply dash forward if I want to continue pressure. Dash forward after LK SS quickrise leaves you at approximately +9, which is plenty of time to set up a CH.
This loses hard to back roll. Also, if you’re opponent is right next to you and negative enough for you to land an 8f move, why not just punish with something like st.HP xx HK SS or cr.MP->st.MP xx HK Sonic Scythe? You get much better damage and better setups after HK SS than you do sweep.
This setup is one I’m quite fond of. Forward throw leaves you at +8 which is more than enough time to set up whatever you want. Tick throws, walk back tech/DP bait, st.LP into st.HP xx LK MS frame trap, etc.
Very true. I had mentioned that all of these setups were tested against quick rise only since that is the majority of what I see personally. The main reason that I like forward fierce as a meaty is that the timing with the whiffed jab makes it consistent. I also have tried a lot of dash up fierce and dash up crouching MP but without a normal to regulate the timing I’m having to just do it by feeling which is less consistent. That is something that is totally just me though.
I understand that, but you also can’t get people to push buttons if you aren’t in range to threaten throw. Go in training mode, set the dummy to quickrise with a fast jab, and get to practicing those meaties.
So I’ve recorded a couple of small things. Nothing hugely important but I thought I may as well post them.
I’ve adjusted my recording settings for SFV so I’m sorry for the first video since it looks like it was recorded on a potato, by a potato while underwater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yDV48tShNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4m9Bv4755c
First video is just showing that Nash can combo from his f+HK on counterhit.
Second video is because I was bored.
Now that I’ve got my settings sorted I’m planning on recording a video just based on the nj.HK - f+LK reset and the options you get from it.
Might do one focusing on our frame traps and when to use them/who to use them against.
I’m testing out a meaty setup against quickrise (not back recovery) with non-CC sweep, dash in, st.HP. I set the training dummy to jab on wakeup and I consistently get the st.HP to counter hit. However, like @Heavy_Mental states above, you can’t get people to press buttons if you can’t threaten with a throw. So I try to mix up with non-CC sweep, dash in, throw and the dummy jabs me out of it every time.
I’m confused because st.HP has a 7f startup and blows up the jab consistently, but a throw is 5f startup and always gets beat out during its startup. I’m missing something here, and it might be something obvious, but for the life of me, I can’t figure it out XD
You might simply be doing the throw too early. Either that or throws don’t have priority over normals when they come out on the same frame. Would’t be surprised if that were true. Lot of grappler mains complaining about getting jabbed out of command grabs.
heres a 2 meter cc combo: s.hp ex MS st.mp m ss vtrigger(neutral) ex ss 417 damage 565 stun
(j. MK) cr.MP, b+MK xx TA takes all of the meter that the opponent gains from getting hit.
CC s.HP, ex MS, b+MK xx TA takes most of the meter that the opponent gets.
j.HK s.HP xx L. SB xx f+VT, j. HP, s.HP XX M. TA takes most of the meter that the opponent gets.
I actually think though the fact that the opponent can’t backroll recover from TA may actually be more useful than the meter stealing aspect of the move as it makes setups much easier. I also think at the moment (as this is something that people will eventually start to look for) that landing a TA that takes the opponent from over a bar to under a bar could really fuck with someones wake-up options in taking them from slightly over 1 bar during the combo but the TA ender eliminating EX move usage.