Nah, the issues will cease to be a problem when this guy realizes that Singles matches are an entirely different ballgame than Teams matches. He claims to have a firm understanding of the meta as well as how each character works, yet simoltaneously makes excuses as to why Madara is broken compared to the rest of the cast when he’s BARELY top 5. It’s simply ridiculous.
Nevermind the fact that there’s dozens of videos with high level play floating around, where the shit tier characters beat out the high tier characters all the time and vice versa. He just wants to make something black and white, when it’s not.
Literally any game that encompasses a player vs player format can be considered “competitive”. It’s just frustrating to see someone skew and distort information like this. He’s saying things that are flat out untrue, and it’s this type of stuff that newcomers see and then become turned off by when most of his statements about the game aren’t based in reason or even fact, for that matter.
I’d suggest playing the game to have fun. If you’re not having fun, for WHATEVER reason, don’t play it. It’s as simple as that. Going back and forth about its competitive integrity(or lack thereof) doesn’t exactly accomplish much.
I wasn’t arguing competitive integrity of the game…that responsibility lies on the community. I’m just rubbed the wrong way when people spread false information. I’d be playing the game regardless of whether or not people took it seriously in a “competitive” sense.
But it shouldn’t be that hard to understand why someone saying “Madara beats out everyone in a cast of over 80 characters” is not only ridiculous, but just plain wrong. The beauty of Revolution is that (unless you’re talking about A Groove Mecha Naruto’s retarded ass) anyone can go up against anyone with the right team. Experimentation is the key.
Also, I’ll accept that Skype thing later tonight. Just been really busy this weekend, my bad.
Spoiler contains rebuttal to Martian as well as an explanation of how I see this game, as with most games I play.
What’s below the spoiler is what really matters imo, but feel free to read both.
[details=Spoiler]Your point of pointing out ‘high-level play’ is irrelevant: I watch many a different channel dedicated to persons who play this game very well, and whenever I see a Young Sakura beat an Obito or a character she normally couldn’t, it’s due to a major gap in skill between players…not because Young Sakura’s an amazing character. Someone who can abuse a great character’s tools, but cannot recover from bad situations, doesn’t make the opponent’s character godlike: that is a basic brain-buster that all newbies must expel from their thoughts if they plan to get better.
Young Sakura is crap vs New Madara, supports or no. It doesn’t matter what supports are picked, what Drive is picked…all that matters is what character you lead with, and how you manage your resources. This game is the equivalent of a business-management game, that plays like a fighting game, and is all wrapped up in an anime-painted shell. If you run low on chakra, or waste your subs before your opponent does, you’re in a world of hurt. Supports are reduced to resources that vary in utility, no more no less. Playing Single Match just removes these additional resources, and shows who shines best as an individual character. Once you find who is the best character individually, logic would state that no matter which supports you picked, having additional resources would make that character even better. Thus your statement that supports add another level to this game, while being true, doesn’t add a whole lot of depth to the gameplay. In fact, playing Single Player mode has helped me with my fantasy in believing that all you need is the right team and some practice, and you’ll be able to handle anything: No amount of team comp or practice will have Karin consistently beat Mecha-Naruto. If you saw this game hit tournaments, there would be no Young Sakura’s in the Top 8 Winners Finals…theoretically…
Maybe it would be better if I explained how I look at things: when I look at a matchup in Revolution, I look at the lead characters tools, their strengths and weakness, and exclude player interaction. That’s right, I’m looking at theoretical perfect gameplay from both players: using their supports correctly, blocking properly, subbing correctly, and doing every move precisely the way they should. Of course that’s oooompossible, but applying a mindset like that allows one to detect which characters are actually just downright better than others, and as you can see with this mindset, the support you pick doesn’t matter as long as it does it’s job to it’s fullest…which brings up the topic of which support does it’s job the best, but that idea is pretty much summed up the same way. It’s easier in this game to find out who’s the best than in most games, even easier considering the series’ tendency to have the newer characters being the better ones, and as I’m sure you’ve noticed the people who win tournaments are not the Dan, Servbot, Dampierre players.
Now, despite the fact that most of playing well in this game depends on your resource management, you do need to know your character…however this isn’t a huge process like in a lot of other games, where even the basics can very among the cast: the majority of O-Mashes are the same (in the sense of Down=Close Knockdown, Up=Launch, and Neutral=Distance Knockdown), shuriken and CE-shuriken vary little outside of [ ]-Combo characters, jump height, dashing, ninja moving, CE-Dashing…etc. The three truly unique things here are tilts, Ninjutsu, and UJ. If any one of those three tools are bad, it reflects on the entire character, and vice versa. Characters whose Big 3 are better than others tend to be more appealing than those whose are not so great, and I’m not talking just about flash. Now, let’s take this a step further: imagine a character who takes one of the things mentioned earlier, and changes it a little bit…like maybe a character who can combo with a button other than O, or a character whose O-Mash hits from a greater distance away. This immediately seems better, yes? Then you look to see who else can do it. Slim to none? Even better, in fact that’s what it is all about: finding a character that can do something that the rest can’t that is outside of each character’s dedicated unique qualities. That’s big in any fighter, but in one like Revolution where so much is shared between the entire cast, it’s even bigger.[/details]
Now that I think about it, I would argue this game has a very minuscule amount of high level play at all, but that isn’t the game’s fault: it’s ours as a community. Most people look over this title, glancing at it and muttering ‘Oh great, another dumb anime brawler,’ and guess what? They are right! It IS just another anime brawler, up there with Xenoverse, Jojo’s, and that weird one with all the armored persons. Guess what else is just another brawler? The Smash Bros. series! Yep, I just went there, just called out Smash Bros for being what it is. Yet look at it, it’s everywhere in tournaments, it even has it’s own dedicated to pretty much just Smash! Now, why is just another brawler out there so much more successful in the competitive scene? Is it the characters? Quite possibly, but Naruto is full of lovable characters too. Is it the company? Heck no, Nintendo made Brawl less competitive and has done more to hurt it’s scene than help it. Then what gives Smash and edge?
The community behind it.
Yep, calling out peeps again: the Storm series community SUCKS serious buttholio. I mean, the most obvious thing to point out is how much the community complains over things that they think are broken. I can’t wait until my hoodie comes in from Broken Tier! I ordered an Adapt hoodie from them: Basically, it shows the word Nerf, followed by Buff, then by Patch, and lastly Adapt, with the first three words having a line struck through them. In essence, it’s a lesson of what players should actually be trying to do in the game: Stop crying for the company to fix something for you and learn how to get around it, as it will make yourself a better player, and that is what’s more important. The majority of the Storm community can’t process this however, and would rather whine and cry about something that is strong or that they don’t know how to beat. What about the rest of the players? They are the ones USING THE TECH! They are a step above the rest, as they choose to use what is good and what works, rather than being some sort of White Knight of Pure and Proper Gaming. They aren’t much better though, as a good share of them RQ to keep their BP (like it’s some kind of currency?), usually meaning that the person who manages to outplay them gets no reward.
I think the attitude of the players is a great place to start, but even without a change in attitude, this game could still see high-level tournament play. Here are the reasons why this game has not and will not see high-level play, in the form of questions: How many of you guys play offline more than online? (I feel like I might be in the 15% right there, along with my couple of friends.) How many of you have spent hours upon hours in training mode with just one character, trying new things with characters long left forgotten? How many of you get a friend who knows how to play and try and apply everything you learned to see if any of it is practical? How many of you watch video after video of gameplay dedicated to the highest level of gameplay available, then proceed to watch the same video over and over as you dissect what happened in each match? How many of you know your character of choice, down to the frame data? How many of you know your character’s matchups, and how they vary based on the supports or drives that were picked?
Even I can’t say I’ve done all this, but that is a prime example of my point: even someone like me who would love to see this game in a streamed tourney doesn’t feel the drive to truly master anything, and that is truly where this game’s hope of seeing pro-play dies. This game’s hope dies with the seriousness and the dedication of the community. No one, not even the players, have enough dedication to this game to see it flesh out and become something bigger than a game people play online to rage.
Let me ask two more questions: Ever gotten together with more than two people to just sit down and play this game? Ever tried getting people to gather around each week to hold tournaments? THIS is where it all begins, ladies and gentlemen, with the burning passion of a dedicated player base and the drive to share an amazing game throughout the world…but none of us have this drive. Most of the player base would rather go online than have someone else acknowledge that they play this game. They would rather hide in their houses, shut the doors, and play this game in isolation…and in all honesty, that’s the real problem: no one, for whatever reason, wishes to play this game with masses of people face-to-face.
But imma try and change that here in a few months, because I am willing to take on the task of getting a bunch of bros together to play this game.
If you all want the game to see pro-level play, you’ll try to do the same.
See, I can play it for fun…although I’d like to win every match, for the most part I have fun even through losing.
My only issue is when people suffer from what I call the ‘Smash Bros. Syndrome.’ This is the idea that every character in a game, EVERY SINGLE ONE, is tournament viable. This is simply not true, as most who analyze things can tell you, not every character in a fighting game is created equal. Rosalina, Sheik, and Diddy Kong are the Top 3 in Sm4sh…now why is that? If all characters were created equal, it would simply be because the majority of players liked them for personal reasons, but obviously this is not the case! In an ideal match, where both players know everything and do everything perfectly, Diddy Kong will best Kirby. Why? Because Diddy’s tools are better, which as a whole makes him a better character than Kirby, short and sweet.
People are suffering from this same Syndrome with Revolution, and it’s quite obvious that this logic doesn’t apply here. If that were the case, then everyone who picks Mecha-Naruto would pick him just because he’s a robot, or Madara because he effortlessly blows up mountains (both of which are good reasons in my book).
Also, to be fair, I’ve felt they way I do about fighters long before I knew about SRK. Any fighting game can be tournament viable, it just requires necessary steps to be made. Kinda the point of a fighting game, in fact worse games than Revo are being currently played on a professional level.
Like I said, come summer imma do my best to get a group of peeps into this game and hold a local tourney.
People with that ideology flock to SRK and similar forums (SRK is FILLED with them) which is why I call it that. I really can’t agree that all fighters can be tournament viable… Just because a game pits you against another player doesn’t mean the mechanics work in a way that qualifies it to be played in a tournament setting. Some games are designed for casual fun and that’s it. You can always try to play those casual fighters like they’re tournament fighters, but you’ll always end up right where we are now.
I don’t agree with that at all phantom. Any and all game c3an be played compeitivly. Competive Integrity ( I believe I’m using the right words here) is measure by each individual.
Again, Can ≠ Should. Sure, you can eat soup with a fork, but it’ll take forever and a spoon is a much better choice. Sure, you can fit the square peg in the round hole, but you’d have to grind the peg down to make it fit when you should’ve just put it in the round hole.
What constitutes competitive integrity does vary, yes, but it’s undeniable that certain games do not belong in tournaments. Games with a lot of RNG-based mechanics, games with easily exploitable glitches, games that simply do not favor the better player… Games like those are better left out of tournaments for sanity’s sake, which is why I feel that not all fighters are or have to be tournament viable.
@“Phantom Angel” I’ll respect you have your own philosophies.
back on topic
Its going to be hella late but im going to try get into this series soon. Dont have PS4/Xbox one/ or strong enough pc for the 2.0. But prefer to wait and se what they do with 2.0 befor making that decision.
Anyone still playing revolution on 360? I recently got it not too long ago, and was just enjoying grinding out items and characters, but now after a couple weeks, im trying to play some comp. Online seems to be sparse, but i usually come across 1 or 2 people online to play a night. Looking for someone with a good connect, that doesnt mind just long setting it a couple times a week or so. Doesnt matter how good you are, i just want to play.
Been itching to play some folks lately too, though. You guys should hit me up for some games. UNS4 isnt too far from being released now. I need to warm up again.
Sad to see the three variations for each character go, but I’m very excited to see how being able to switch between three characters works out…I wonder how the health bar is going to work in that case.
