Naruto Thread 9.0 - The Manga is done, son!

Sigh people need to pipe down and chill out.

Pein could have used all these techs, however he didn’t not because he wasn’t written to. It’s plot progression. Like i said a while ago, had he used them, the plot would go nowhere. This is a staple to nearly any form of media. So to say he is dumb isn’t accurate. It’s a story first and foremost, and like all stories, would go absolutely nowhere. Even the most popular story ever told in history (judeo-christian origins)has the most op person (God) not just eliminating the villian (Satan) instantaneously. It’s just what is. So Is Madara dumb for not using Izanagi to imagine himself back to 100% with both working eyes? Of course not, it’s plot progression. You could spend an eternity wondering why character A doesn’t do x y z to achieve his goal. It’s a story. Get it? A story. Meaning it needs to go a certain way to be entertaining. I hope i pounded that thought across long enough

Until we have clarification as to what exactly Madara did to Pein , we will see wsup.

And let’s say Madara did actually give the eyes to pein. How in the world does that make Sharingan> rinnegan?

The original argument was that Pein had the best eyes and would beat Itachi. There was no shitting on Sharingan anywhere. So let’s not gloss over the original debate to just throw out random insults. I said it then and i stand by it now:

Rinnegan > sharingan (every other chapter nearly seems to confirm this. Even this new development implies heavily that Rinnegan > sharingan, hence the reason Madara wants it back )

Pein> Itachi (Based on all the jutsu’s shown by both, Pein’s trump cards outweigh all of Itachi’s .)

These were the original arguments and debate that led to Black jesus “ignoring” me. Yet all the evidence shows otherwise hence the random insults and ignores. Hilarious. Then come back weeks later to throw some more random insults about a character (Madara) who has nothing to do with itachi vs pein. There is no correllation between the two. So you’re still wrong on Itachi vs pein. And if anything this shows my point even more about rinnegan being the most desired/powerful eyes, seeing as Madara wants them [back].

I suppose i’ll have to hear more random insults everytime a Sharingan user does something cool

“fuck you sharktongue Sasuke just whipped up on naruto . This just shows you that you were wrong a year ago. Piece of shit”

edit : Oh and as far as what jutsu trumps what, that is opinion. And i for one don’t hold up to izanagi being the best.

The jutsu pein used to decimate the entire village to me, was one of the best panels and jutsu’s ever. That was incredible, and had me like whoa. This dude is the man. Bringing them back is crazy in itself, but it took some of the whle shock value and all. When danzou first used izanagi, i wasn’t that impressed. Why? Cuz Sassanoo , an incomplete form of it, seemed to be just as strong. No real devesating effects. And it only seems to effect his own personal reality. Not someone else’s. If he could project the genjutsu to someone else , that would be awesome. But the description seems to imply a genjutsu you use on yourself. Not so impressed by such.

For me Pein’s incredibly devestating jutsu is the best . Followed closely by Itachi’s Tsukiyomi. Followed by Itachi’s version of sassanoo . The sword mirror combo to good.

spoilers?

Just to clarify can someone clarify who the hell is fighting madara/itachi in these scenarios?Deva pain?all six Pains? or Nagato?Each of the pains had limited abilities, and on on one i don’t think any of them would beat madara.All six at one sould probably beat madara with izanagi if he had to fight them (which he doesn’t)Nagato on the other hand has a full rinnengan but hes also chaired up like professor X in this Mofo with Rods sticking in him. Nagato isn’t the rikudo because he chose to use this Jutsu to split himself his power up making each piece weaker and he himself seemed like he was in no condition to fight at this point. Also like i said while all six would probably beat madara, the combination of teleportation and the knowledge of nagato’s true condition makes all of that pointless as he could always just teleport to where nagato is and merc him instead of fighting pain bodies.

the debate had nothing to do with madara. Was pein vs Itachi. All six peins + Nagato himself vs Itachi. Black Jesus bringing up Madara had nothing to do with the original debate. But like most folks who are wrong, they go off on tangents.

Un, I started thinking about the whole Rinnegan transplant (if that’s what happened). What if Madara was in (or near) the group of ninja that caused Nagato to flip? What if Madara was the one who killed them and then gave Nagato the eyes? It’s not the first time he’s merced folks and let someone else take the blame completely.

Kishi could probably make some extra cash doing a canon versus series of all his Naruto characters as a side series.

@ Sharktongue if rep still existed, you’d get it.

There’s no reason why an eye that is supposedly a split with another that together make the Rinnegan would be better than the Rinnegan.

That’s like saying (2/1 = 1) > 2. Can’t go there.

We haven’t seen the full power of the Rinnegan yet, though it’s obvious Madara needs its power to do what R.Sage did. Like Shark said, if Sharingan > Rinnegan, the story would already be in EZ-mode.

:clapdos:

I thought that and wanted to pull up the chapter but I havne’t really searched for a ‘historical’ site with regards to old issues - but they did keep the guys ‘face’ in the dark if I remember correctly (or covered or something)…perhaps Madara saw the bloodline (Uzamki) - and plotted the whole thing, hitting him with a genjutsu to put him down so he could swap eyes or something…but still, with swapped eyes like Kakashi - it’s ‘always on’…so either we have inconsistencies…or its something else shrug

  • :bluu:

I thought that and wanted to pull up the chapter but I havne’t really searched for a ‘historical’ site with regards to old issues - but they did keep the guys ‘face’ in the dark if I remember correctly (or covered or something)…perhaps Madara saw the bloodline (Uzamki) - and plotted the whole thing, hitting him with a genjutsu to put him down so he could swap eyes or something…but still, with swapped eyes like Kakashi - it’s ‘always on’…so either we have inconsistencies…or its something else shrug

  • :bluu:

pains trumps do not outweigh itachis, retard. pain has no way to get though itachis version of susanoo, at all. while susanoo can suck in his bodies 1 at a time without him being able to do much cept run and escape. his only hope would be chibaku tensei.

Susanoo is a jutsu. One of pein’s bodies absorbs jutsu.

It absorbed naruto’s frog juice. Also a huge rasengan. And other techniques.

so far as i can make out, Susanoo is a chakra shroud similar to the tails. Covers him up, and armors him up. Absorb guy would come out and take that down.

another body takes your soul .

another body drops mushroom clouds.

Itachi has shown no super stocks of chakra to maintain doing all 3 of the big bad jutsu’s long enough to combat and take extensive force pushes.

Here’s a flashback for you.

Remember the J-man Pein fight…when J-man didn’t know Pein’s secret?

Remember how in ONE move - J-man took out all the bodies in the area with a single jutsu?

Now think of what someone who can POINT genjutsus would be able to do in that situation.

I’m not lowballing the power of the rinnegan, but what we’ve been shown so far…what it excels at - assuming this whole life & death aspect - still loses to genjutsu…you can’t force-push someone looking at you.

Lets actually be honest with ourselves. The ONLY thing that made Pein seem broken was his ability to control 6 puppets. That’s IT. If you condensed his powers into a singular being, OR take away his Konan ‘hide’ assist, or give out his secret…Pein himself would get beat by a genjutsu user. The fight/match-up is about the ninja - not the tools. Now if the rinnegan can truly do everything the EMS does, then we are talking something different, but from what we’ve actually SEEN thus far, the winner is based upon the user - not the eye type.

  • :bluu:

Again got to go with what we know. Until Itachi does it, he doesn’t have a genjutsu that is aoe. So you can’t say A > B thus A > C. Thats not something you can do in this world. It isn’t DBZ or Bleach. Granny mentioned how to beat a sharingan user. Pein is a walking counter to Eye genjutsu’s. The fact the genjutsu was an aoe makes it effective vs pein, not the other way around. Itachi pointing pew pew genjututsu’s isn’t going to help him in this situation. The only one that could work quick enough where pein bodies can’t break is tsuki. and that is not somthing we can surmise can be done seven times. he would run out of chakra or go blind. Either or.

edit: and the thing that made me think pein is broken is his ability to decimate an entire village. And the fact it was shown on panel (not mentioned ie sasori). Also bringing them back. These were the things that impressed me the most. And this is what made me think he was broken. Anyone who can see eveyrthing, destroy villages, raise hundreds of people from the dead, raise his own bodies, absorb all jutsu’s, summon stupid crazy shit, force field anything and everything away from him, and touch you and steal your soul. That’s what made me thing pein is broken. Not to mention him having what kishi himself describes as the best eyes.

But your also painting a scenerio where Pein is favorable - I.E. the real Pein is hidden somewhere, and Itachi doesn’t know where he is…cat and mouse, which is not a fair comparison Select Pein, then Select Itachi, then pick the ‘training’ board for SF4. You’ve got Pein who’s most potent attacks in that situation are the gravity based types - and him still needing a charge to do one strong enough to blow itachi away…on the flipside you’ve got Itachi who just points and wham, if he knows the truth about Pein he can either genjutsu the main one…effectively shutting down the others, or simply take out the most dangerous one at the time.

I’m not saying that the MS is better than the rinnegan in the scheme of things. I’m saying that its the shinobi who dtermines victory more than the pew pew…the levels of brokeness are irrelevant. You can vanish->X-Zone, or you can call ultima…both get the job done in relatively the same amount of time and drain on the user depending o nthe setup.

  • :bluu:

Jiraiya also only got past step one against pain because he was able to summon a bunch of frogs to beat all pains summons, itachi as far as we know can’t summon anything, so unless he has AOE genjutsu powerful enough to hit all pains bodies and all the stupidly powerful summons he would just get owned by the summons. Not to mention the fact that jiraiyas aoe genjutsu was caused by the two(most powerful?) frogs together, that kind of genjutsu may not even be possible for normal people.

Wow i had written up a long explanation as to why. And it was lost haha. OH well.

in conclusion the gist was: Pein vs Itachi comes down to the Genjutsu. and its been shown Itachi doesn’t have the chakra reserves to use it effectively enough on all the peins. As far as itachi knowing the truth , that is speculation, and can’t be verified. So i wouldn’t use that. Far as favorable conditions go, the only way pein has been shown to fight post wheelchair is from a distance with 6 bodies. I’m not deviating from what has been shown. I agree it comes down to writing. whichever one whoever is writing it dictates wins , simply wins. all i do for myself in determining who is stronger is stack up there abilities vs one another. And then go from there. And for myself i have determined that ITachi doesn’t have the chakra reserves to tsuki Nagato into oblivion. Whereas vice versa Nagato has all the tools necessary to end Itachi.

this is all opinions and makes for entertaining discussion. I have Itachi on my squad in Lantis’ battle polls, so it’s not as if i’m biased to pein over Itachi, or dislike the guy. But for me, Pein has to many pluses for Itachi. Drop all seven peins in a room with Itachi, and i don’t see Itachi coming out alive.

This is a good point to, but most people would bitch at you for saying Itachi can’t take out some summons. Which is why my conclusion is that ITachi just simply doesn’t have the chakra capacity to really take him on. To many things for him to deal with.

But…here the swing goes again…
If we take them out of the training room and put them into - say the are a sasuke and deidara fought…open land AND foilage, we now have a Pein that can bring down all the bodies one by one, nothing says he has to use the MS genjutsu techs. Sasuke who isn’t a genjutsu god effectively shut down the other genjutsu guy without using …that MS genjutsu…lol. As well, Pein’s bodies aren’t ‘seperate entities’, they aren’t like Kabuto’s zombies…they are merely puppets - hitting Pein himself with the genjutsu would put him down.

  • :bluu:

Well, if we tinker with surroundings and whatnot, why not tinker with the idea of a 100% healthy Itachi? Poor guy was strung out on meds to live as long as possible and still was a serious threat.

If that is so, why weren’t the other Pain affected by Ero’s Genjutsu. I’m not disagreeing. I’m just curious.