Those aren’t in their normal move sets without having extra criteria. As for movement unfortunately I have to say yes. If every character had their natural abilities then we would be back to wolvie having healing factor, sentinel being able to block out of flight, and any other character with a natural ability that people think should be in as well. Imagine Mags blocking out of flight after covering half the screen just cuz he can. Its a “nerf”, if you want to call it that, to the whole cast. Doubt it’ll hurt spidey too much. As for the damage output we don’t know that yet we are only assuming that because web throw was abused a lot.
Not sure what your first point means. The criteria is ‘can they solo OTG’, which Wolverine and Zero can do for 100%. Spider-man cannot.
It’s not a nerf to the cast members that get free teleports that are safe instant mix ups. It’s a nerf to characters predicated on aerial rushdown. I’m not asking for the Hulk to kill everyone in a punch and for Spidey to be unhittable with Spider-sense. I’m asking for some semblance of logic in game design. Spider-man’s unique strength in MVC3 was controlling the sky for safe rushdown approaches and keepaway, which converted into the best meterless damage in the game. What’s his strength in UMVC3? No frame advantage off of web zip, a long vulnerable air dash, no unscaled damage. I’ve personally lost all the reasons I played the character.
I see what you are saying but if those two characters don’t have x factor they can’t do anything off their own otg. That does not count the same as someone like wesker who can naturally get a combo off otg whenever. That’s along the lines of spidey can do a hell of a lot of damage with no meter, yeah so can xx character with x factor. One can do it naturally while the other can’t.
I can’t think of any teleport in the game that’s insanely good that it would be considered overpowered. Yes there are situations that are difficult, but nothing that straight out changes the game, Phoenix included. Matter of fact I see it on the same grounds honestly. You won’t be seeing more dante’s, dormsmmu’s, phoenix’s, etc teleporting willy nilly now so it’s about the same. The fact he could block during an air dash in this game was not the reason he was good. It was because of the tools he had for keepaway/runaway, meter building, running clock, dealing damage while conserving meter for team, countering Phoenix, and being mobile. Even still the change won’t be that huge of a difference to him. His dash isn’t as long as it looks. He’s free the moment he let’s go of the web
I see a little bit wrong with this statement. While I was complaining myself (and still am not 100% ok with everything tbh), after seeing the official changelist so far, I agree with you that Spider-man will still be viable, or at the very least above Hsien-ko/Morrigan tier. BUT I have to point out some things.
This statement “The fact he could block during an air dash in this game was not the reason he was good” contradicts the underlined portions of the quote I took, at least in my opinion. The fact that Spider-Man could had good runaway/clock running/being mobile, plus the fact that he could keep good, continuous pressure anywhere on the screen, more-or-less hinged on the fact that he had a really good, dependable,long reaching, and safe air-dash. The fact that it’s completely exposed with no blocking, plus the possibility that you can be punished for a successful web-zipline connect pretty much takes all those pluses away or lessens them severely. Half of the things you listed as positive (seems like it) won’t be the case in UMvC3 for Spidey. Tying/bounding Spider-man to certain assists to make up for this, not only could hurt team structure, but also just simply isn’t as effective, in practice - i.e. he won’t be able to recover those positives. All this because Capcom decided to herp-derp a magical solution to solve the problem of Magneto/Wolverine/Dante/etc rushdown that A) quite likely won’t even work (seen Magneto or Doom?) and B) will only serve to hurt lower-tier cast members exponentially more (Hsien-ko, Morrigan, Chun-Li, Spider-man, Iron Man,etc).
I also say it hurts in countering Phoenix because, if the 1 shot MS Phoenix K.O. trick didn’t work for whatever reason (which is more or less pretty easy to mess up), Spider-man could still control the screen with his air-dash vs. Dark Phoenix. But admittedly, while normally, the air dash nerf would pretty much destroy this possibility, the Phoenix nerfs*** just may*** make this match-up vs. Dark Phoenix still reasonable.
So in short, while I can still see Spider-Man being quite good in UMvC3, I don’t see how the changes hurt the character alot more than help him (of course, I could be wrong though). BUT at the same time, the air x-factor and as-of-yet undiscovered tech may change this.
sorry to be off topic, but I hate how so many people have teleports. Especially phoenix. There is no way that nightcrawler will ever make it to the game, and hes awesome. Anyway, maybe that web ball xx web zip thing will work and spidey will be able to OTG by himself. No ones really tested it, and i hope Maximilion tries it with and without x-factor, with light, medium and heavy web balls.
I never said it would help him, or that it wouldn’t hurt him, I said it wouldn’t hurt him as much as people are assuming. Spideys dash is not that long, it covers a large amount because of the momentum of the swing but as soon as he let’s go of the web, assuming it’s the same as mvc2, he should be able to block again. He lets go at the bottom of his arch. As for runaway etc their are very few people in the game who can punish him for his runaway at such high heights. Usually in runaway situations your air dash should be last so you don’t end up in a situation on the ground you don’t want to be in. He has the tools to stay away and up high in the air for awhile to make people have to come to you.
I don’t think pairing him up to a certain type of assist on the other hand will be as bad this time around. This game many people used otg assist to try and open up his air throw game, relaunch game or resets off uwt, low hitting assist for unblockables, or assist that would combo more web throws. We will still see pairings but more variety in said pairings than mvc3. Overall the game is due out in a couple of weeks. The cast as a whole is looking a lot better and more interesting. I will definitely be trying to break in characters like spidey ghost iron man and some others to find a team that works best for me. I think we just need to be patient and somewhat more optimistic than give up on a character due to minute changes in the game.
sigh Screw this notification system; it never notifies me of any new posts on this thread. -____-; As for being able to follow-up with OTG Web-Zip from an Air Throw, I believe that it’s HIGHLY possible WITHOUT an assist. If people remain in Web Zip’s hitstun for as long as they did in Vanilla, it’s going to be a breeze to learn air throw combos with this guy. Real talk.
As for the air dash nerf, we just need to develop our ground game… Yeah, a guy with the tag AIRBORNE just said that. Hell, we still have our ridiculous Web Ball advancement antics, and that’s all I need to keep me happy!
BTW, I’m going to have to start looking for a strong horizontal assist for my Spidey Nova synergy… perhaps I’ll have to start considering Hawkeye or Tasky again? I s’pose I could always try Hulk again if I don’t mind the 47 startup frames. -___-;
Playing Peter till death. He could be Hsien Ko and I’d still play him.
He’s gonna have some tech in Ultimate, dude will be alright. Yeah, I’ll miss the damage and air dash nonsense but it’ll make every Spider-Man player more solid for it.
Definitely consider Hawkeye, Airborne. He looks so right for Spidey. What looks like a safe DHC in Golden Arrow, and a likely good follow up for Maximum Spider and Crawler Assault (hard knockdown now, yeah?) in Super Scatter Shot . Or Ant Man for dat damage.
Gonna have a couple Spidey variant teams I think:
Spidey/Tasky/X-23 (my current Vanilla one - it’s pretty slick)
Spidey/Hawkeye/X-23
Spidey/Hawkeye/Nova
Spidey/Hawkeye/Storm
Spidey/Hawkeye/Tasky
And maybe something with Magneto and/or Ryu thrown on a Spidey/Hawkeye or Spidey/Task for fun. Spider-Man plus arrows = oodles of fun. I won’t be needing X-23 as much, but she’s such a great character and still can work OK with Peter (especially since deep in the corner, he might not be able to get a zip OTG in time off an air throw – just an inkling, I could be completely wrong) that I want to play her still.
I’m going to stick with my Spidey/Doom/Taskey team until I see something wrong with it because this team has yet to really fail me… so if it isn’t broken then why fix it?
Considering they fixed the characters that I originally wanted to use and I’ve heard that Ghost Rider is a fucking beast, I have a lot of characters I want to pair up some maybe this time I can get more enjoyment out of this game all around. I was mad Iron Man played the way he did in this version :annoy: but also I may pick up Trish, Zero again, Storm more, Captain America, Dormaammu, and hopefully Morrigan if her output is decent enough to pair with her keepaway.
Characters I’m considering using in Ultimate:
Spidey
Nova
Hulk
Dormammu
Taskmaster
Hawkeye
Firebrand
Cap’n
Iron Man
Rocket Raccoon
Vergil
Chun-Li
Zero
Storm
Ryu
Super Skrull
Jill
You’re right, man. I’m definitely gonna run that as one of my teams, because they seem really good together. I’m gonna run my teams according to tiers (the higher the tier, the more time I’m gonna spend with ya):
If I’m feeling a team more than another, they can move up the list. With this method, I’m 100% that I will not run into the problem of not having an actual ‘main team’. Also any character is changeable with any team
The more I think about it the madder I get at MvC3. If we would have gotten the complete game to begin with imagine what kind of changes we could have got, good or worse, in UMvC3 then.
If Spidey performs a :l: Web Ball at the peak of his Super Jump, then immediately cancels into Web Zip after the Web Ball comes out, can Spidey possibly reach the target before the Web Ball does?
Should I make a video describing the changes for Spidey? (i.e. how it affects us, what we should look out for in Ultimate, how to prepare for Ultimate Spidey in these final 13 days) I know a lot of people have been doing this for their characters, so I think it wouldn’t hurt.
The more I read your posts, the more I’m willing to think you’re right…