Thank you, I find it hard to believe we are honestly debating about a character that is yet to win anything.
Regular people aren’t going to learn to fight Phoenix, they’re just going to bitch til Capcom “fixes” her.
Well ‘regular people’ aren’t going to be playing against good Phoenix players nor have good Phoenix teams themselves. Online she doesn’t seem to be any more of a problem than the Dantes, Weskers, and Wolvies.
//I don’t check Capcom Unity.
Regular people think that high level applies to them and when they hear someone is OP, they become parrots and repeat it. Look at all the comments when it was revealed 3SOE wasn’t getting rebalanced complaining about Chun and Yun as if it’s a guaranteed win if someone picks either of these characters.
To be fair, if you kind of suck and your opponent kind of sucks, but you both know rudimentary simple combos, then the Pheonix player still has an edge. He’ll pop Xfactor Dark Pheonix, take a few facts with him and spam them until the other guys dead. People act like laming out with Pheonix is harder at lower levels.
Not true. In fact I’d say it’s harder for a scrub to take out pheonix. Sure you informed seasoned players can probably take out the scrub pheonix but the majority of scrubs will get lamed out. Personally I think she’s the lamest character created since Gunner. (what a reference.)
Well I won’t say that either argument is fact. Rough example:
Player A = Player B in skill. A plays Phoenix, B plays non-Phoenix.
If A knows about laming out with DPh XF3, and B knows this also… B will do what he can to get rid of Ph before she gets 5 bars. B also has access to hypers that probably do more damage than a ‘rudimentary BnB’. As a theory, A’s team will probably have less health than B’s team. B’s team is hence able to kill A’s team including Phoenix before Phoenix gets the 5 bars.
A second way would just to lame out Phoenix herself. Said ‘Regular people’ can’t even play with normal Phoenix properly. They need Dark Phoenix to win.
//I tried not using the word scrub due to my liability of getting screwed and tattooed
EDIT: I’ve just watched my casual housemates play around with Phoenix and non-Phoenix teams. About even in terms of who won. Phoenix team had an advantage when he did get DPh, but always lost if XF3 ran out. Again doesn’t mean much other than observation.
Aside from her health, what are the holes that this character has? She can shoot fireballs faster than anybody on regular D.PH mode, she can make her own teleports safe without needing an assist, has a bunch of good normals, great damage, any button shit hits can randomly anti air with the little fireballs she shoots, and she can spend a bunch of time in the sky with super jump and raining down tracking fireballs. What exactly is the hole on her game? I mean this as a serious question.
On commentary: Is there any way to get commentators to stop talking about the third spot on a team as an anchor? For the life of me I can’t think of one time where this spot has ever been held by some kind of “anchor” character. Was CapCom or Psylocke an anchor? Was Tron an anchor in MvC2? Don’t think so; seems like a dumb pet peeve but Ultradavid usually has pretty good commentary until he starts talking about the “anchors” then he just sounds retarded.
It’s a MvC3 thing, idk who started it.
Not completely sure, but I believe it started with some sf 4 team tourney actually, they would refer to whoever was starting as the point and whoever was last as the anchor.
Point characters exist, but this whole talk of Anchor characters don’t really describe most of the teams that get played. Aside from Team Combofiend and Phoenix teams, most teams don’t have an anchor; they just have that character with the good assist that gets boned when its 3 on 1 or 2 on 1 (nevermind the fact that x-factor now makes it 3 on lol or 2 on lol).
The hole in her game mainly comes down to her being good but not broken in anything but level 3 XF. A character with as low health as Phoenix and D.Phoenix can only really truly be powerful in a mode where they can’t take chip. Which is why you always see her win so much when she gets in her perfect situation where she can’t take chip, gets faster start up and recovery on her fireballs, traps and teleports and doesn’t have to do more than 5 hits in a combo to basically kill you.
When you’re fighting against Phoenix or non XF3 D.Phoenix this becomes much easier to handle. She takes huge damage from chip so unless you play a character that has no projectiles or long range chipping ability you can take gobbles of health from her just by chipping her from a safe distance. Her fireball has 20 frame start up and 20 frame recovery when in non XF3 making it the most easily punishable fireball in the game for a lot of characters. Even if you actually let her get the fireball on screen your best bet is to super jump away from her. She can’t touch you with anything if you’re on the opposite side of her at the top of the screen. If you just sit on the ground when she throws a fireball you’re most likely going to get blown up with safe teleport mix up so the best thing to do is just run away and force her to have to recharge a fireball. She can’t really spam up the screen with homing fireballs in any mode except XF3 D.Phoenix. Which during that time you should have XF ready also so you the only thing you have to worry about is blocking the fireballs (which you can easily do by super jumping around so she can’t do anything else but air throw you). If she’s in XF3 D.Phoenix spamming homing fireballs and you dont have XF…welcome to die.
One of the biggest keys to stopping Phoenix is to stop her fireball game. It’s the scariest form of space control she has and if you can give her reasons to do something other than fireball you’ll make things much riskier for her.Characters like Tasky and Sentinel can blow her up out of the air for the most part if she throws even one fireball. Even in XF3 D.Phoenix. If Tasky catches her throwing one fireball…she’s dead to arrow super. If Sent catches her throwing one and hard drives…she’s dead. This becomes way easier obviously when u time out her XF3 and she has to deal with her slow ass regular homing fireballs.
Even if you dont have options like that with your character you’re still best off just going up in the air and trying to hit her with something. She can really only throw fireballs safely from the air and if you catch her pre emptively trying to throw a fireball you can land a hit and then just trade with the fireball or if you get there fast enough land a full air combo to take most of her life or kill her. People basically shouldn’t be afraid to go after her fireballs because she can’t really set up offense safely without them. Her teleport has 20 frames recovery that is definitely punishable with an easy death combo without a fireball setup. There’s really no reason to just chase her down with super jumps if she wants to go to the air and throw them. The start up is atrociously long and if you somehow get hit by the fireball the only thing she can really do is combo into super and that’s barring she has enough meter to do that. If you aren’t chasing down her fireballs you’re basically making the match 3 times easier for her.
**Long story short **if she’s not in XF spamming fireballs…jump up after her and hit her out of them or stop them withj a long range or full screen super. If she is in XF3 have your XF3 ready and super jump to the back of the screen. Even if you end up towards the corner at least if you’re in the corner you eliminate her back teleport mix up since she can’t teleport behind you if you’re in the corner. Ideally you’ll want to just super jump away from her and then when you get towards the corner super jump back forward towards her and either hit her if she throws a fireball or just jump around it until her XF burns out. Basically just play lame as shit cuz she’s trying to lame you out with her offense also so the only way you’re going to beat it is by out laming her so she’s forced to lose health and take chip damage. Once she losers her XF3 power she’s basically dying, retains her super slow homing fireball speed and will take damage and chip like a bitch. She can turn on healing factor but she must combo into it or run near you after activating from far away and put herself in danger of losing to get any health back.
That’s a good point, I’ll keep that in mind. Thanks!
I think it’s a useful way to label the different positions in character order. It’s just a name to prevent confusion and allow one to describe the make up of a team.
personally i think she shouldn’t get a damage buff from xfactor at all. the fact that the normal downside to her as a character (health decay) is completely negated is such a huge extra buff from xfactor and she is allready getting a damage boost from the transformation in general is enough. hell i would lower her speed boost as well.
Don’t be so easy. Calling the last character alive the anchor is fine. Similar to the last runner in a race. Believe it or not there are better anchors than others. Is rather have Dorm lvl whatever x factor than MODOK. He’s a better anchor. It’s sure a gel of a lot shorter than saying “last character.”
Man up son.
So, Tatsu’s mom…
I think it works both ways. It depends on who the character is and what not. Say if your last character is Tron or Haggar, I highly doubt the player had them their as an anchor but more for their assist. Sure they still have comeback potential (with level 3 x factor), but not so much as say Phoenix or Dorm. For my team I qualify my Dorm as an anchor because I basically have him their for his level 3 x-factor goodness… I rarely use meter with my other two characters as im charging it up for Dorm IF it comes down to that.
Some players have their teams set up where they have 2 really good characters and the 3rd is saved for a so-so character with a awesome assist. Those teams are more designed to make the first 2 characters awesome with that assist and hope it doesn’t come down to that 3rd character.
So yea I really think it depends how the team is constructed that the general gameplan of the player if that 3rd character is a true anchor or not. That is just my opinion though.
I’m always trying to improve, and that’s not gonna happen if I’m being stubborn or ignore criticism. I can call last characters “3rds” easily enough while leaving the term “anchor” for characters intended to serve as anchors with comeback or shutdown potential.
Tune in tonight for the MvC3 monthly in Marietta, GA (NW Atlanta) : Online Events Calendar
I may or may not be doing commentary, but I hope so!
snapping in Phoenix against competent players does not work. Even the random guy from Xanadu showed that. Against someone that knows what they’re doing, snapping her in is actually a loss.