Well thats the mistake people make, they assume they will snap her in and she will automatically die or some shit. She wouldn’t be a very good character if that was the case now would she? No matter what strategy you use, you will have to work to kill her like all other characters. But no matter how you say it, snapping her in is the best way to handle her, atleast at the moment. She naked tags out all the time, forfeiting some red life for her teammates and putting them in very bad situations, plus re-snapping her in loses w/e red life she has at the moment making your job a lot easier. Plus if you watched the stream last night when 10stars finally started snapping her in, she finally stopped being a problem, same for marlinpie.
I say no matter what the situation is, you snap that shorty in, even if she has 5 bars, you still snap her in, even when she becomes dark phoenix, because what a lot of people don’t realize is while dark phoenix is a legitimate problem, the real issue is lvl 3-x factored dark phoenix. So force her to face you without it by snapping her in every chance you get. Plus if you watch marlinpie you see he uses them long ass viper combos before snapping out so he always has one bar to deal with any of her shenanigans.
Yeah it’ll be a balanced deal though at the same time. Whatever people utilize to snap her in, Phoenix players will ultimately come up with more tools than strategies to deal with the snap in. There’s really only time for Phoenix players to learn to deal with the snap in and more time the others will have to learn to just deal with fighting 5 bar Phoenix more often. There’s really no reason not to do it but there’s no way Phoenix players aren’t just going to learn more ways to get around it and people will start questioning if they really should waste meter after meter snapping her in or just say fuck it and save the meters to try and out X Factor her later.
Learning to deal with snap backs will probably be about the biggest issue Phoenix players will ever have to face. Once Phoenix players learn to deal with that there’s nothing else to scare her. She’ll pretty much just be this bitch you’ll have to deal with. Which is fine cuz I love risky characters like her any way.
The berserker slash mix ups are alright for now but eventually for tournament play they will start to get predictable when he comes down to just “oh wolvie is either going to mash c.L, mash on dive, call assist, try to throw me or left right berserker slash”. If the only real mix up you have to deal with is throw or berserker slash we’ll see how long that lasts when it’ll definitely be easy to just jump out of the way of it and it’s unsafe on block any way. X23 has pretty much the same mix up and more when combined with a good assist while having nothing that is unsafe on block instead of the one move that gives her any real mix up potential being unsafe like Wolvie.
If you advance guard X23 she can use her M mirage feint to safely ambiguously cross you up and set up counter hit games after. Which means there’s pretty much no point in advance guarding her whereas with wolverine there’s pretty much no reason not to unless he’s trying to c.L counter hit your advance guard (which you can easily tell when they’re doing that) or you know he’s going to berserker slash. Once 23 players start adding throws more often into her game she’s going to get really hard to get off.
I meant from a more personal level. People here claiming things about individuals that they don’t know. Calling so and so an asshole and he deserves it.
Most disappointing thing about last night was how fail the ending was =\
If she’s being predictable then she’s not playing right. She can go three way with her mixup only slightly worse than Wolvie and her hop can be pretty ambiguous at close range. Her biggest advantage though IMO is that she DHCs in a little better (WXP works off most other hypers, even beams ) and she’s a bit more adept at maneuvering in on strong zoning from full screen. The damage difference isn’t much, X-23 just has harder combos.
I still don’t see X-23 > Wolvie. Perhaps its the lag infested Berserker Slash mixups or that retarded frame advantage dive kick, but X-23’s “mix-up” isn’t that crazy for me to be like “OMFG that damn x-23!!!” I have an easier time blocking most of her crap or simply beating her out. Granted she has the DHC trick and has somewhat better aerial mobility than Wolvie, the fact that she bleeds pretty hard and you need to do a lot of shenanigans to reach Wolvie’s level of damage is what makes me think she isn’t better than Wolvie. Different options? Yes. Better than Wolvie? I don’t think so… and I’m a Wolvie hater.
You’re just mentioning things that apply to online play. Of course Wolverine is always going to be better than X23 online. X23 requires too much hand technicality to be properly played online. She has a feint cancel that gives her from what I hear up to 10 frames of advantage on block but it requires you to press S within 2 frames or hold S before doing it to cover it. Some X23 players even just hold S down the entire time they’re fighting to make it easier.
Her mix up game doesn’t really need to be that much better because her counter hit game is also just as good with her ability to instant d+H dive on top of people trying to mash on her strings which leads to the same bullshit that Wolvie’s dive kick shit does and her tiger knee L dive is just as good once she gets in. People aren’t using regular throws enough with her either. Her regular throw pushes people far into the corner and once she gets you in the corner she has plenty mix ups that wolverine isn’t capable of especially with assists backed up behind.
Having low health isn’t an issue. Unless you have 1.2 million health in this game at high level play you basically have low health. Everyone is going to die in one combo soon.
Well wolverine has left right mix-up with his slash nonsense and thats pretty much it, against some members of the cast he has instant overheads but in general he doesn’t have as much mix-up as x-23. She can go left or right, high or low, plus she has a command grab. Honestly as time goes by I can almost guarantee the wolverine useage will greatly reduce because while he is by no means a bad character, dude is mad obvious, plus he has one of the few air attacks that doesn’t hit overhead.
@ihateM.O.D.O.K: Yea the ending was pretty darn anti-climatic, I wish marlinpie hadn’t gone for the split but what can you do I guess.
I guess so. I just need to get raped by a really good X-23 for me to believe it or see it on a stream that its like “omfg can you please GTFO me?” type shit. Are her cannon drills [whatever that orange/red arrow kick shit] that are done in the air overheads? Those Mirage Feints have some invincibility or they like Cap’s somersault? I will admit her command grab is sorta nice for those stupid people that turtle all the fucking time [turtling in Marvel? Wtf is this Guile vs Guile SF?!]. I just need a reliable way to deal at least 550k + Weapon X Prime into DHC Trick into Wesker touch of death combos. I personally like X-23, but I think that Mirage Feint thing could have easily been transferred to letting her standing :h: jump cancel-able.
Wolvie has an instant overhead on everyone, not just some characters. He also has an ambigous crossup from his dive kick. Also if any wolverine does berzerker slash and doesn’t cover himself if it fails he is bad. I don’t understnad why people are saying he has poor mix-ups. If anything wolvie’s weakness is do to weaker supers(in utility and effectiveness to other chars) and he has lots of trouble with certain zone characters like morrigan and taskmaster.
None of it is overhead but it really doesn’t need to be. The more people learn the game the less it will be just about the mix ups and the more it will be about frame trapping and forcing people to tech throw and advance guard when they shouldn’t. All people care about right now in this game is overheads cuz nobody ever throws. Throws are soooo powerful in this game and X23’s pushes people in the corner for free where her mix ups get way stronger. Once you get people tired of being thrown into bullshit all day they’re going to start trying to tech or jump away and that’s when you can blow them up with her instant/tiger knee specials and air throws.
The way in general that people play the game is very basic and its missing quite a few aspects that you normally see on the regular in matches in SFIV. Once its all figured out it will open up the gates for more technical characters like 23 to really get going.
How does that make her any special from anyone else? Throws can be tech’ed but I agree with you it is something people are not doing that much. The only one abusing the shit out of this is J.Wong with nasty effect wit She Hulk and Wolvie. Everyone becomes nasty in the corner. Shuma-Gorath is freaking AMAZING when he has you cornered. 500-600k meterless shenanigans with Mystic Stare relaunches or regular throw resets after a Mystic Bash. I don’t really see that much frame trapping to be honest. With advance guard and all the mobility bullshit that is hardly seen. That’s why people get hard-ons for overheads and throw resets because they are near guaranteed forms of damage when properly thrown into the mix.
Now that was a disappointing revelation, oh and lol and some dude complaining about the speed at which matrix lost both his characters and spooky putting setting the dude straight.
I know right, I mean if you don’t like it don’t like it, I respect that, but don’t come up with cheesy ass reasons like that. Anyway, guess what people? Dudes have finally started snapping phoenix in and guess what? She has been looking less and less like a broken character.
