They need to change the way we map controls. Instead of picking the stuff on a list we should only press a button.
This. This one million fucking times.
The referee. The one TRUE Punisher.
Damn I miss Cable.
Would you care to share that ultimate anti sentinel tactic you have with phoenix that makes this matchup at least 8-2 in your opinion?
I’d love to hear that, because IMO its a 5-5 since he has the tools to beat everything she can do with a right guess, and he only needs one to KO.
BTW sentinel’s assist with a character like magneto on point >>>>>> sentinel on point.
lol! dude i’ve been playing fighting games since the beginning. i understand doing damage is the most important part of fighters. the problem is one BASIC combo taking off 50-70% of life is absolutely ridiculous. You can’t compare sf2 to this. how old is that game? and sf2 was one on one; you didn’t have the world blowing up, homing missles chasing you and block damage that’s stronger than some characters clean-hitting hypers.
I see peeps wanna leave this as is so they can have an easy way out. it’s like playing a better player at the original version of chess and losing consistently. then someone creates a version that allows one chess piece to take out four at the same time. people will defend it because they don’t have to dedicate as much time to it and still get close to winning. it shouldn’t matter because it’s fun right? right?
this game in it’s current form is the equivalent of Mario Karts elastic artificial intelligence. with x-factor being that game’s help-me-keep-up weapon system.
This is why i stopped playing capcom fighters after third strike. they haven’t made any forward progess in the gameplay department. every sf character plays almost exactly the same as the first game. now people are trying their hardest to defend this linear nonsense.
I’m done with posting about this mess(clap if you want). can’t wait until blazblue: CS2 and arcana heart 3 arrive so i can forget about horrible vs. crapcom 3 and it’s sesame street mechanics.
The problem is when there’s no difficulty inherent in the combos then everyone is going to do the same combo every time they connect ad nauseum. There’s no strong reward for putting in a lot of time in that respect. There is in other things but it isn’t quite the same.
As example. Someone not very good can do a few simple combos with dudley and enjoy it but dudley CAN do some ridiculous combos, same with Necro in the corner. The combos don’t require insane inputs they just require practice to understand the timing and get consistent with it. If you put in the time you can punish for quite a lot more damage compared to someone who hasn’t.
I think that’s the issue. Combos don’t really scale very much and for some people that’s not as fun because that aspect doesn’t require as much practice.
I personally don’t mind and think the game is fun as is. But I’m not serious about it or good at it. I think being able to combo easily is a good thing but I very easily see what bothers better players about things. There’s less separating players of various skill levels.
-Remove ground bounce normals
-Lower dmg output (more for some chars than others)
-Reduce and remove some xfactor buffs (reduce all of lvl 3 down to like lvl 2 strength at the least)
-Tone down/remove the invinc assists (so arent as mashable)
-Add more recovery to teleports, chars are just getting in for free for almost no risk
-Reduce the priority on some moves/normals, give some of the spammable moves a bigger hurtbox so they cant just be mashed so freely (eg wolvies dive kick, tronnes jump h, lei leis swing and jump h, shoto tatsus, morrigan and doom jump s etc)
It’s really hard to call for individual character balance at this stage, since the metagame is still being figured out. I mean Sentinel’s weaknesses were shown at WinterBrawl 5. Who knows what’s possible next.
I think an overall damage reduction would probably be a good thing, but I think the game works just now without it too.
Make all X-Factor buffs just Level 1’s. There’s no reason to use Level 1 X-Factor…EVER. While I honestly don’t care about the damage output Level 3 brings, I go by the community, and obviously the community hates XFLv3. To be honest, even if the X-Factor remained Level 1 permanently, it’d just be used like Marn used it in Fight Clubs, which is just a tack on to kill a point character.
X-Factor probably has to go, or remove all damage buffs. Either, or, because as of now, any damage buffs will just keep everyone unhappy it seems.
…how are you commenting and suggesting what the game needs when you don’t play it then?
Combos do 50-70% and you can regain half that life lost with a tag out and playing one of the other 3. To compensate for the high damage, there’s a lot of opportunities to regain life which regains quite fast. Then there’s snapbacks to make characters lose the red life. It’s like the assist die too fast complaint, they made assist a little harder to punish than before so they made them bleed more when they do get hit. Honestly, the damage an assist takes is extreme but I guess that’s a quick way to get people to learn to use assist at the right times.
I’m not sure how there’s complaint of anything lowering the skill needed to win when it’s the same people winning in this game that was winning and/or place well in other games before MvC3. No one bad is doing better and that gap between good and bad is only going to widen when the good players gain more experience.
I’m really not getting the “combos should be harder to perform” complaints. Why are you banking on that one type of mistake to be made? There’s other areas where a player can screw up anyway. Also, people are dropping combos in MvC3, they’re not that easy apparently. Unless this is the “harder to perform means whoever can do it is better at the game” argument which is laughable.
Why should you go for resets and mixups instead of doing 1 long really painful combo? Well, Wong was going for mixups and resets over the longer, more damaging combos. Looks like there’s benefit for doing short combos and getting them to tech and guess what you’ll do next. Almost killing in 1 or getting the kill in 2-3 successful mixups where they were forced into a losing situation even if they guess right?
How is teching back or forward making the game linear? It’s giving an escape option that the attacker has to consider, otherwise it’s just right back into the grinder if the only thing they can do is roll backwards. I’m not sure how adding an option is making it linear, having only 1 option available = linear, now you have to account for 2 options, oh shit now you have to see if they tech back or forward!
I’m not going to say “ooh Fanatiq, I can’t believe you are saying this Q.Q”, no one is void of making good suggestions or bad suggestions (Wong wanted to ban Seth in SF4, just saying).
The way it makes the game linear is because characters like Magneto and Storm would have really good resets but, as I said before, they’re all bad E.V. Why take time to do a reset when 1.) A normal combo will kill or put into critical mode 2.) The person being resetted is put into a 1/4 guess spot, while the person doing the reset is at a 1/3 guess spot before his reset can even be considered.
When I first got the game and did my training mode thing I contrived a bunch of really sick resets. I played a match and someone teched forward. In most games if someone guesses the reset, they’re in block stun, still a not so favorable position. In this game if someone guesses right, they have avoided the reset all-together. I still have a bunch of nasty tricks which I will employ to win, but it doesn’t change the fact that this game will get old quickly because it is very linear. Yes people have more tech options, but they aren’t given the opportunity to use those tech options because almost everyone who is successful in this game does air combo - knockdown - otg - super. That = linear.
Again, don’t cite Jwong as if he is some sort of standard. The guy was raping DPC with Ruby heart jill ken, don’t any of you try it though. He raped several top players with 3 captain commando assists, but don’t you try it though… just because he uses a tactic and can still win with it, doesn’t mean it was the best tactic, it just means the gap between his level and his opponent’s level is wide enough that he can gamble or not do what would be considered the best option.
In MvC2 you could always tell how much respect I had for my opponent based on my play style. If I hit my opponent and then got super fancy and did 5-6 resets back to back, that meant I didn’t fear him. Yes, I still won, but I knew it wasn’t the smartest way to play. I said that to say that just because Wong wasn’t playing it as linear as it should be or will be played once everyone has a ton of experience, doesn’t mean that isn’t the way the game will develop. You can doubt what I’m saying all you want to, but 2.5 years from now when everyone is playing sfxt and txsf much moreso than mvc3, and the game has a tournament lifespan equal to that of TVC (roughly 2 years) we’ll have moved on from what had a ton of potential if not for direction the developers decided to go in.
This thread has some pretty good suggestions but almost none of them are gameplay-related. Forward air techs are FINE, it’s in plenty of other good games(guilty gear, blazblue, melty blood…). It’s not some insurmountable wall against resets, it just adds another level of depth to it. Same for rolls.
This guy has the right idea though. Especially number 3, that shit is annoying.
My post disappeared into the void so i’ll summarize.
It’s not that combos should be hard so people drop them all the time but that combos should scale in difficulty and damage. As it is there’s really no scaling, you hit 100% combo efficiency with very simple stuff. There’s no drive to go beyond that because you really can’t and it isn’t worth anything. So the difference separating people who practice a lot and master the game vs people who don’t spend the time is a lot smaller with respect to combos.
as for teching. Well when you can go 2 ways that means you can set it back to 0 entirely. the attacker loses their advantage and you get a free restart basically. so instead of someone being able to follow on your ass you can just escape completely. the reseting to 0 is what makes it linear. there are fewer opportunities for the attacker to setup ambiguous situations because the defender can just tech out of the situation entirely. whether by not rolling or whatever. you can just kind of avoid that situation in more cases than you can’t I think.
I think in time this will even out though as people learn about assists/specific moves that together give more advantage to the attacker in these situations. I’m not positive that will happen but I feel there’s a lot to explore in that way. It may just be the way you setup ambiguous wakeup situations is a bit different in mvc3 than most of us are maybe accustomed to.
Having multiple options for teching is the OPPOSITE of linear. All the super cool resets you create only punish one direction for teching. You need to brainstorm different resets for every direction for teching, or even multiple ones, so that you can punish your opponent’s habits.
So because the damage on normal combos is too high to make resets worth doing… the tech system is linear? :wonder:
Who the hell are you talking to? Of course I have multiple resets for multiple tech options. Last time I’m going to say this “All resets are bad E.V. because of multiple tech options making the game much more linear.” What I mean by linear is because of multiple tech options it is safer/smarter not to reset at all, which is why all of the top players do Air combo, otg, super. Not because they do so much damage, but because you’re gambling with really bad odds any time you reset.
I didn’t say the tech system is linear, I said the gameplay in general is linear and if I must clarify I was specifically referring to the gameplay for the aggressor upon landing a hit. And a resets are not worth doing, not because damage is so high on normal combos, but because the E.V. is so bad on resets.
There’s a reasonable argument that forward rolls shouldn’t be invincible, especially when you can call assists during them. Otherwise the positioning for them isn’t great other than getting out of the corner.
Alright I get what you’re saying now and I think I see it from your side and understand it.
Yeh thats another thing, shouldnt be able to call assists during your wakeup roll. F roll call assist is like a free get out of jail card
Wow I wish I read your post before I did mine. You say it so clear and concise. What you said about tech’ing setting it back to 0… that is my gripe. Thanks so much man.
The thing is, Phoenix can do so much more than sentinel.
Traps + SJ. TK Shot C to keep away. Instant overheads. Tri Jumps. Teleports.
Sentinel cannot chase Phoenix easily. I have to guess with a Hard Drive or a HSF and hope it hits you.
Sentinel cannot handle any sort of teleports easily. Phoenix’s is so fast that sent cannot react fast enough to even do anything. Then you get free high lows on him if you are close.
I get more what you are saying now. The Sentinel hate is a little unjustified. Yes, he does too much damage in XFC and is too fast in XFC. But overall he loses hard to pressure and can’t handle low high mixups or teleports.
The game still needs more time to flesh out. I still see a lot of people (including pros) doing basic BnB’s for damage. Noone is really using resets to their full advantage yet. I still say it’s too early to talk about patching. Give it another month. The game has only been out about 3 weeks.
But like someone said, (which I agree with you on), 100% combos are really easy to do. And there is no drive to make a bigger combo because it will do less damage and be harder to execute.
I understand what you’re saying. Air combo otg super gives way too much reward for pretty much everyone which greatly discourages resets that rely on guess. And I understand you saying that people shouldn’t base their views on JWong, but he wins by literally doing the exact OPPOSITE. He beat everyone at winter brawl using air tech resets with she hulk. He beat everyone before that using wolvie knockdown + akuma assist.
I don’t think the problem is the air tech and ground roll system, I think it’s everyone else who assumes they’ve already figured out the game, picks whatever character is stupid with level 3 xfactor and 5 meter for their third and then gives their money to JWong. The game shouldn’t be patched until everyone has enough time to catch up to his current level.