MvC3 Actual Balance/Potential Tiers Discussion

my wins with Thor felt like the only reason I won was because they other guys didn’t know what I was doing

he needs to be in the air, if he’s on the ground to long he gets eaten up , fast

which isn’t easy with mobile characters ziping about and assists flying at you.

his projectile can be ducked , It’s still useful but not as much as it should

his tri jump is good but I’ve lost count of the ammout of times I got anti aired or air thrown , I’ve not really had a issue with this with anybody else , if they block my mixup attempt I’m dead

in short he is dangerous as hell , but only with good reads , just like skrull is

I don’t mind DP motions, I just hate tiger kneeing them. It’s so hard to consistently get tiger kneed DP motions an dnot get a random QCF motion in there. I tried learning zero’s lightning loop which is like tiger knee lightning dive at a certain height back to back to back… fucking hard man lol. I did it once finally and then immediately turned the PS3 off.

Damn you wouldn’t be able to play Guilty Gear at all. I-No required you to consistently do SNK style motion special moves and then do a 1 or 2 frame cancel in the middle of it over and over. Well not everybody is that hard but just the fact that somebody in the game is that hard to do their better bnb was crazy. There were some easier characters like Potemkin but pretty much everybody you still had to learn to one or 2 frame cancel for your combos or even basic stuff like improving your mix ups.

I agree with basically everyonthign duck strong is saying. Also Spiderman buttons mostly suck. He has a decent st.a and some other stuff but his buttons aren’t league better than thors. Thors normals actually have suprising range even though they recover balls slow, and I think that really saves them from being trash. Also coupled with the right assists, his ground mixups get really fucking scary. He also has some tricks against common defense options such as push block. Not to mention like most characters he has stupid tricks that you’ll probabaly get hit with at least once.

His main problem is landing that one really good hit. My main damage with thor against alot of D is usually air light mighty strike ~l xx l.mighty spark xx super… But iif he does get in with any decent lockdown assist, he’s a mixup monster. I think Thor should def be solid mid tier in this game.

Things people don’t know
His Assist does good damage and is useful for a vairety of characters, basically anyone with a self otg but no way to combo afterwards, thor is good with.
He has a 1-frame DHC starter, very useful for countering certain things, with other fast supers probably setups up unblockable dhcs
His Cross over counter is one of the best in the game.
Actually does really good against incoming characters that aren’t sentinel (harddrive is cheap)

EDIT:

Also to deviljin, I think xsamuraix is malice IE one of the better slayer players in the US at least at the start of AC

lol I used to play it competitively actually. I played slayer though… I don’t think he had any DP or TK moves, and no FRCs worth doing for the most part. Just lots and lots of weird links. Fuck an I-No… you need robot hands for that.

Yeah Slayer plays more like a SF character where you can just kinda do links and stuff (not that links are super easy either). Most of the cast outside of 2 or 3 people are just execution ruts.

That’s why I feel with time this game is just going to be about Wolverine and whoever with some execution just sits on everybody else. The execution in this game overall isn’t THAT difficult. A top Guilty Gear Venom, Dizzy or I-No player would just pick up Mag/Dante/Zero and would almost never drop shit. You’d have to push their stick on the ground or soemthing.

Especially since the game has a hit detection system during combos where as long as you land an attack relatively close to the opponent during the juggle it will land. The hit box system for combos in games like MVC2 was way more specific and in Guilty Gear everybody had their own weight and hit box you had to consider for combos.

People at my arcade say the combo’s are to easy to do in this game. I hope they are talking about Sent, Wesker, and Wolverine, because Zero, Dante, Magneto, Viper, Chun, and Morrigan all need atleast good execution for their advance combos.

Mag’s Rom into HGrab Loop is way harder than Ryu’s cr.mp into cr.hp IMO.

I really don’t mind easier combos, it just makes me mad that they do so much damage. I can do a regular sentinel / wolverine combo, or I can learn an advanced sentinel/wolverine combo and I only get an extra like…50-100k. The gap should be bigger on that because herp derp ABCS should not do as much as it does.

Well to be fair, some characters like Jill’s ABC combo in MVC2 was 55% on Cable.

Nah even the higher execution characters in this game aren’t that difficult. The only one that’s like really difficult like old school anime game difficult is Viper. Everyone else including Dante/Mag has hard stuff but nothing hard enough (especially with the game’s lenient ass auto correct juggle system) compared to the old anime games. Any old anime game player would never drop shit with anyone other than maybe Viper. Which is why it’s not surprising to see Marlin Pie drop shit with Viper because she’s the only character that has that really grind out old school execution.

Dante has some stuff that’s like legit frame tight hard but the easier ground combo based stuff builds 2 meters and kills off most of the cast with a DHC or two any way.

I put myself through so much agony playing Viper, but this game wouldn’t be nearly as fun without a heavy execution character to me (which actually pays off with this character). As much as I could probably go team cheap and win it just takes all the fun out of the game.

I’ve played Viper since about one week into the game and I really don’t have a problem with combos anymore, but her execution heavy mix-up/approach game (which is other worldly) is what kills me the most. I’m slowly getting better at them and happy I still make progress, but the fact I have played this game since then and haven’t even remotely mastered this character shows how much effort it takes to play her properly. I’ve placed so much time into her that my other two characters if there was a grading system would be at C+ when they come out. Partially that is my fault for not putting more effort into those characters but I want my viper to be the best lol

Iron Man’s more complicated stuff is pretty hard. IM is harder than Viper IMO. Viper really isn’t too difficult.

I don’t think it’s really the combo difficulty that matters. I don’t mind wolverine having the combos he does, or anyone for that matter, just means I have to practice less and focus more on actual match play, which is whats really important. I just don’t think it should do as much as it does damage wise. You can’t deny wolvie combos take less effort than Dante combos… most of dantes are screen positioning and sometimes character dependent, and they’re long as shit / sometimes take really tight timing.

The easier execution makes me happy. Someone like me who knows match ups inside and out, strategy, and has a pretty decent neutral game but ass execution appreciates it :slight_smile:

I would be fine if it was harder though, I’d just have to step up my game.

EDIT: The damage is retarded as hell though. I guess you have to live by the “each character is 1/3 of your life”

agreed, i still cant fucking do the autopilot (cant hit ADDF H)
whereas i can do alot of vipers stuff.

vipers hard execution to me is her seismo xx seismo game. if you can play her without it her execution is only slightly more difficult than most characters imho.

-dime

In a sense I can agree with Nissan. Combos are much much more difficult, but his general game is more straight forward and easier (because of his normals and movement) to Vipers.

And Samurai yeah. But in the end this game was built for the masses rather than the hardcore fighter. And I believe you’re right when you just have to learn the match-ups because if you don’t no matter how good you are and how many tricks you know in the end mindless mashing or a specific move will always destroy you if you don’t know how to deal with it.

Yeah obviously the hardest part about Viper is her mix up/pressure which requires more execution than her combos. Which was…exactly how she was in SFIV.

Yeah that’s the problem with this game. The easy combos in this game make the easy combos in SFIV look like 3S Urien Charge Partition. Even random guys on YouTube are making whole videos on how easy the execution is in this game for some of the characters. If randoms think the combos are too easy…something is horribly wrong. The other issue is that until the game gets to a certain level of play where people can consistently react to the spacing that Wolverine is at to stay out of mix ups the reward you get for learning non XF death combos is just not really worth it because any random dude can hit you with one c.L or throw, turn on XF and end you.

In another game anything that requires that little execution would do no damage. In this game…turning on mechanics of the game allows you to kill people one shot. Random nobodies shouldn’t be allowed to kill you with one combo no matter how many power ups they turn on.

I guess we will see where Capcom takes this once Super MvC3 comes out or whatever. I have a feeling it will be a more thoughtful game once that comes out. Or maybe I’m just praying too much.

Anything will be more thoughtful than this XF activate ABCS BS.

I feel like they will tone it down a bit especially since capcom cared so much to place a nerf on Sent’s health when the game came out (not saying it was necessary). They care to try and make this game more balanced. Surely they will do something… right?