I don’t trust anyone with anything, but something as simple as toning down the scaling from 1 to 3 shouldn’t be too hard.
I think the functions as an alpha counter, rapid cancel, barrier guard and regen tool are all way too cool to throw away though.
V-Joe is not low tier. If you think so you are definitely mistaken. You can’t play superjump runaway against him and he fucks up Phoenix.
It’s ONE of it’s uses, sure. The move has TONS of uses. That’s why it’s a good move.
Not really. The opponent is going to have a very hard time figuring out which way to block.
Lots of good setups require assists. Also, you’re flat-out wrong. Berserker Slash xx Berserker Charge --> dash --> anything is extremely easy to do and leads to a full damage combo + a bit from the slash hitting.
1.) Drones don’t juggle the opponent unless they’re in the air.
2.) If that happens, most characters do have trouble comboing off of it. Wolvie is in a great position to combo off of it by doing drill claw --> dive kick --> bnb
Once the drones are out, you have two options - block or super-jump. Block is a free mixup, and super-jump just lets your opponent reset the situation. You can’t punish a sentinel assist with melee attacks unless your opponent called him out stupidly or doesn’t understand how to cover it.
Uhh, drill claw is unsafe if you whiff, so you don’t spam it out like that. Dive kick gets you in nearly for free and from there you work your MIXUP GAME. That’s what Wolvie does.
Seriously? Sure, Wolvie doesn’t have an air dash or double jump, but he’s one of the fastest characters in the game and has incredible aerials. Jump S and dive kick are incredible moves and cover a huge area, letting you protect your assist no problem.
That’s your problem, not the character’s.
So does every attack in the game. Those two moves have insane priority. Who cares though? There are tons of ways to deal with them.
Also, fyi, if chun whiffs legs you can berserker slash for a pretty much free mixup. Try thinking about Wolvie’s tools instead of just writing them off.
Which is why you cover it with an assist, just like every other approach in this game.
Rofl. Use an assist or drill claw–>dive kick to deal with it. Nearly every rush down character has to have a plan for that, and Wolverine has more tools than most to deal with it.
Your post makes it painfully obvious that you have no clue what tools are available to Wolverine. If you don’t know, don’t comment on if he’s good or not.
Going back to Dante, because he’s what I know most, I think people have generally understood that his teleport is complete balls on its own. I’m thinking it can be useful for resets and setups though. Because Dante is relatively mediocre at getting in. He has great normals though, cannot be denied. And a lot of tools.
I agree that Amaterasu is simply amazing, but I get absolutely shut down by Dormammu with her. Anyone else have some thoughts on this match up?
Ok since this Tread is about Teirs (I think, IDK maybe its about sent) but Im surprised that so many ppl consider Ammy and Pheonix to be powerful, even top teir characters.
Now it may just be that I haven’t faced enuf profecent players that use these characters, but I dont flinch at the site of them, just some more bricks in the wall.
IDK maybe its my team that shuts them down. Wol/Storm/Sent
Uh huh? Except that after Wolverine’s standing H, Berserker Slash you are left in block stun and have to wait until the drones stop hitting you. So saying Wolverine doesn’t have a pressure game is ridiculous. That and the fact that you are talking if Wolvie isn’t going to have an assist backing him up, especially when most of his game revolves around having a good projectile assist, so I don’t know what you are getting at???
Fatal Claw to protect Sentinel? You know that once you cross up with berserker slash or the dive kick the opponent turns around right? I do agree that Wolvie has bad air to air options. Again, brain dead Wolverine’s man. Why would you call an assist if you know you are going to get hit?
Chun’s legs? Dude. Give me a break. Also what sword are you talking about? Zero’s jumping h (his best move) trades with the dive kick, except that it’ll ground bounce Zero. Standing H has to be timed well to knock Wolvie out and it’s a trade that is not worth it. Zero’s standing medium hit box doesn’t go above him.
Dude, Berserker Slash. Wolvie’s game revolves around it. You can push block Wolvie’s dive kick but it’s +8 on block. Good luck with that.
Wesker > Wolverine. Better game in general. Good runaway shuts Wolvie down. Not so much for Wesker as he can punish long range with the gun. He can also stay in the air, shoot, teleport. Great Counter super, better assists, more damage, the list goes on and on.
Simply lowering the health of one character shouldn’t be that hard either, and they screwed that up. And I don’t really care about the cool factor. Either it helps the gameplay or it doesn’t.
I usually don’t like being a jerk-off over the internet, but you said it best. This guy doesn’t have a clue.
On another note:
There’s a reason why people are calling for a nerf on the dive kick. Drill claw x Dive kick puts you in the perfect position to land the dive kick. If you haven’t played a dive kick heavy game (i.e. Third Strike), the theory behind dive kicks is that they are better hitting opponents on their legs because it’ll get your character close to the ground, recover quicker, move you and attack all at once. You usually have to time dive kicks for them to be effective. However, the fact that this specific dive kick, which is +8 on block, is the best dive kick in terms of frame data in probably the whole fighting game universe, makes it one of the most abuse-able, spam happy, super priority moves in this game.
MGIII:
Dante’s teleport is usually abused to no avail. The best way to play Dante (which people haven’t figured out yet) is superjumping Airplaying and/or Vertical Guns x Killer Bee or Hammer. This, if used in conjunction with an assist is where Dante makes his money.
If that gets too predictable then you can land use Missiles. If you think you can catch an opponent off guard then you can use the grappling hook (which is quick) to get a free combo. If your opponent is a keepaway character (like deadpool), they’ll usually try to do some projectile to shoot you and keep you from the air, in this case you’ll have the teleport and punish for free. Teleport is not balls on it’s own.
Dante is top tier as the game developers intended him to be this way.
Dante can play rushdown and teleport all day, however, it’s too predictable. Strong, but predictable. Mixing it up is the best option. Also, once Dante gets a hit in, even on block, you are going to have to block each one of his attacks, which btw usually end in Fireworks, which is safe on block and hits BEHIND him!
Dante is the most versatile character in the game. Only Ammy (with Solar Flare, cold star, random super and her short hit box), Zero (teleport shenanigans, fireballs), and perhaps Wesker (awkward rushdown) give him problems IMO. Dante is also a Phoenix killer. His teleport and helm breaker or even air grab, just fuck her life up. His assist (jam session) also fucks her up as well.
Ammy is top tier because:
She has an assist that locks down/protects you while moving in (cold star). Wesker with Ammy is really dangerous, if she hits at any time, Wesker can easily rush in and combo. Also, while locked down, Wesker can teleport through the cold star, land in back of the opponent and rtsd. If the assist doesn’t hit, Wesker is under the cover of Cold Star, so if he starts getting hit, the opponent is getting rocked by ice.
Ammy’s super is almost all range (it’s the new hail storm), can dhc from almost everything, great for anti air or assist killing and is comboable off of her air throw.
She’s small.
She can combo easily. Good damage. Great keepaway/counter game (cold star chips well, can be fired anti air and forward) and she has a counter for almost everything.
Solar Flare counters most keepaway and a lot of rushdown! Theory fighter 101… Let’s say Wolvie rushes, Ammy fires Doom Missiles to cover her ass. At this current moment, if Wolvie lands a combo on Ammy, the missiles are going to smack him out of hit, ok. Now Wolvie jumps, Wolvie dive kicks cause it’s his best option, Ammy solar flares and has called a missiles. What can Wolvie do? This is also without taking into consideration her item switching…
Her normals are also great. Air dash to grab to super is too easy with her. Her standing medium is +1 on block, it also moves you forward to keep you in range. Great jumping attacks such as jumping medium, which is quick, easily combo-able into itself or jumping h. Forward H hits multiple times as well, keeping people in a long as block string.
I’d say the only thing she doesn’t do well is be an anchor. Her XFC is the worst in the game, it doesn’t gain a lot of speed and the damage isn’t that outstanding. She is also one of the few characters that has almost NO bad matchups. Her worst match up is Dormammu, bar none, cause purification and dark holes aren’t solar flare-able. Projectile assisted rush down is also threatening to her, although not as threatening to her as to other characters cause she can just call her own assist and super that shit.
Phoenix is top tier cause of Dark Phoenix duh!
Regular Phoenix is the best or one of the top keepaway characters in the game (I think Doom is better). Best teleport in the game. Great attacks in air and ground (crouching mp counters Akuma’s for free if you didn’t know). Great mix up game. Best anchor in the game. Best XFC as DP. TK traps are fun to lay down, quick. Easy chip damage. Homing shots. Two cons are the fact that you need to have teams centered around not wasting meter. She has few bad match ups (Dorm, Doom, Dante, Ammy) and some so-so ones.
How on earth does Joe fuck up Phoenix? Joe’s biggest weakness is that you can jump back against him and there’s nothing he can do about it. They nerfed this from TvC and some other stuff thrown in:
V.Joe’s only claim in not being the bottom of the barrel in this game is his “Slow” super, in which you have to sacrifice damage to cripple the opponent. It’s also your only chance for a high low mixup after you land it and of course the ability to Snap out and brutally cripple an assist. Lastly if you screw that up, a person will super jump to the top of the screen and hover there until Slow is over. It’s not like they care since Joe can’t do anything about it other than score some paltry damage.
No chance against runaway despite having an airdash and a triple jump, which is just sad. Shitty assists and his only invincible super has incredibly bad range. He needs so many essential buffs and he’s not going to get them for a long time.
Joe is ass, though I disagree with some of above’a reasonings.
Well the idea of nerfing Sent was pretty contentious in general, people dislike XF3 across a variety of playstyles and skill levels. And cool was in reference to what it adds to the game.
It’s the former then, both characters require a bit of finesse to execute well. Amaterasu isn’t shut down by any team. Hell, I’d say Ammy is still at an advantage even in a lot of 1v2 matchups, ignoring X-factor.
Just pointing out that you don’t need to be a good character to be a good anchor, you just need to have a really, bloody good assist. Really, to be a good anchor, you either want a character to have an amazing assist OR be self sufficient and have a very good assist. Tron, Haggar, and Sentinel occupy the first category. The ideal anchor would obviously have an amazing assist and be totally self-sufficient. The characters closest to that golden standard in this game are Doom, Iron Man, Dante, and Taskmaster. Phoenix is an amazing anchor also, but for other obvious reasons.
And although I acknowledge everyone’s argument’s for having Wesker as an anchor, I will only agree to disagree. I still feel that you’re squandering his potential having him anywhere except your first slot.
I wasn’t trying to be a jerk, but it’s very important to correct the record so that false info doesn’t spread. Basically, this guy’s argument was based off what Wolverine CAN’T do, and that’s never a good argument because you can’t prove a negative. It just so happened that what he was saying Wolverine can’t do is obviously possible to anyone who’s played Wolverine for any non-negligible amount of time.
I’m with you - none of his points were valid.
I wouldn’t go ahead and say Wesker>Wolverine flat out like that though. Wolverine has a lot going for him that Wesker doesn’t have. He plays nice with the DHC trick, has generally more damaging combos, can get in from a diagonal angle, etc. I’d say that they’re very different and usually not competing for the same slot in a team unless the team just needs something general like an offensive point character. Even at that, which you choose would be dependent on the rest of the team and not necessarily who’s overall ‘better.’
Wesker can play nice with the DHC trick with Rhino Charge as well.
I do believe that the +8 frames does not include the time it takes you to reach the ground and recover(if there are recovery frames)
But as a Wolvie player, I agree with you that this move is godly, even spamable in certain situations, mainly against slow characters with large hit boxes (preferably some that doesnt have super armor :/) and easily confused opponents
Ill buy that, Id like for anyone with a great Ammy in here to add me so I can see whats really up with her, what shes really capable of.
It is pretty balls on its own. It does provide good mixup and can force errors, but assuming the opponent knows it’s coming (and it’s not hard to react to at all, given its distinct visual and auditory clues), they can at worst block it. It does get you in and provide good mixup, but by your own admission, it’s pretty predictable on its own.
AARRRTTHHHUUURRRRR
Everyone wants to throw him to low tier instantly, but he has some of the best assists with gold armor, and his lvl3 XF is downright stupid. Spam homing arrows to death. Most characters that try to catch him in a super get in with the arrows after, depending on the angle and your movement, and it cancels them out of it.
I’ve been using him as an anchor with Mags and Akuma to great affect. I can hit confirm supers if fire bottle connects, makes for great cross ups, persists even if he gets hit, and if you try to make an opening from the front, the fire pushes the opponent away making it more difficult to punish. His supers DHC easily between these characters, and his level 3 is always nice to have when he’s all alone and the armor and XF wear off, with its crazy invinicibility and full screen hit, including OTG. Arthur is a meh character overall, but I really feel like he is a strong anchor.
I would imagine that Wolverine can do so in more situations though, given how much less recovery Berserker Charge has than Rhino Charge
As a Wesker player I would say he can fight Wolverine but I would hardly say he flat out beats someone that safe. If Wolverine gets in as a Wesker player you pretty much have to guess counter or hope you tech a throw to keep from getting out of a bad situation. Wesker can zone him out but that isn’t going to lead into damage unless a beam assist hits or Wolverine forgets to block while Wesker is in a position to ground shot.
I do “optimal” zero combos when I play, and “optimal” dante combos. Everyone will eventually, but people like to be lazy and jump on the ship late.
Nyo:
Nope, he’s small, Voomerang with or without a good assist goes up the screen and smacks Phoenix down. He doesn’t one DP though, just saying regular Phoenix. His Air Kick can be chained multiple times, on block Joe is pretty safe as he can throw another move afterwards. Mach Speed is invincible. He’s Middle or Low Middle, however, he’s not low. Jumping S and his jumping attacks are good and quick.
Wesker doesn’t flat out beat Wolverine, there are few matches in this HIGH damage game that are like that, but he has better/more tools to deal with situations than Wolvie. Wolvie can kill Wesker, but so can anyone else in this game, but Wesker IMO is a better character and has better match ups.