Thor shouldn’t get zoned at all, like ever. People have no idea how to play him if that’s the common perception.
Mighty strike is easily one of the best moves in the game.
Viper being ass simply doesn’t compute. I mean, she’s got great meterless damage with the box loop, good aerial mobility, a stupid good mix-up game (I have no idea why you think Viper has a bad mix-up game. I can’t comprehend it.), and tools for dealing with just about anything that could possibly be thrown at her. Frankly, I’m terrified by Viper with meter; much more so that any other rushdown character with meter. The problem is that her learning curve is beyond steep and she feels very different play-wise than her SFIV incarnation so you can’t exactly carry SFIV Viper skills over and expect to perform well.
Basically, she requires a shitton of effort and so we won’t be seeing much of her for a while. Once the metagame develops to the point where it becomes obvious she’s a good choice, we’ll see quite a bit of her.
With regards to Thor, he’s got an awesome aerial game, a great projectile in Mighty Spark L, and if he ever gets close you’re fucked. Period. Characters that need to get in close for damage will die to a good Thor. That includes characters like Zero, Magneto, and Sentinel since his Mighty Spark L eats out their projectiles if I recall correctly (which is the reason I say it’s great, as for any other character it would be ass). He does have some horrendous match0ups however. Thor vs. Amaterasu is probably the most one-sided match-up in the entire game. Like, it’s literally impossible for him to beat Amaterasu. I would not be exaggerating if I said it were something like 1-9.
I didn’t say the characters were terrible, I’m just saying that compared to other characters they’re lacking in tools. The only reason Wolverine and She-Hulk are dominating right now is because people don’t know how to deal with them. Really, though, the only characters that I think are total ass are Ryu, Captain America, and Hsien-Ko. Everyone else is actually playable.
I agree that it’s really good. Why in the hell are tiger knee RDP’s so hard to pull off consistently though?
Zoning is one issue, the other is those slooooooooow ass normals.
I understand what you’re saying w/ Viper. I just haven’t seen anyone do it yet. My list is pretty much “Month 1 tier list”, not really where i postulate things will be in a year or two.
As for thor, does the startup glow of mighty spark eat through Mag Disruptors or does he get stuffed?
Lol@ at thor vs ammy. Better than the 10-0 ammy vs haggar.
No question, his ground normals are severely lacking (his launcher isn’t half bad though, and relatively safe at -6). I don’t think he should be attacking from the ground much though. His tri-jump L is too good not to abuse it (crosses up, can go low, leads into his kara throw)and it plays right into his throw game. And a block tiger knee Mighty strike already leads to a pretty sick High-low because you can stick out a j.L right before he lands or wait and go low or throw.
What he does need is a decent projectile assist because I think he loses badly to pushblock otherwise.
This is my personal tier list
Rank A
Phoenix
Dante
Wesker
Sentinel
Amaterasu
Rank B
Storm
Wolverine
Magneto
Taskmaster
She-Hulk
Zero
Chun-Li
Doctor Doom
Trish
Tron Bonne
Rank C
Akuma
Dormammu
Iron-Man
Rank D
Haggar
Joe
All the other characters, I need to see more of. She-Hulk and Zero could change places, and Trish and Chun are on that tier, but might be moved later in the future. This list is without counting assist power.
EDIT: Iron-Man IMO is one of the best characters in the game, but for now he should stay there until we see someone that really understands the character play him.
Wolverine only gets 650k with 1 meter bnb (and it takes an assist to get there). Does he not count all of the sudden? Nice arbitrary number.
All that matters is whether or not a rushdown character can get to the 2-combo kill sweetspot. Most of the time, no one’s dying from the first combo of a match. You need to make sure the second one gets the kill. X-23 can definitely do that, on top of being a great anchor and having better mixups than a lot of the (real) high damage characters.
I think Ironman is tops or near tops. Unibeam stops hidden missiles and drones on point or as an assist, he can do 600-800k damage from anywhere on the screen, and he has an amazing mixup game with his trijump shenanigans (you can go high by trijumping with j. M or you can do a high-low fake with j. S). Also, some of his normals are insane. J. H in any direction covers a ridiculous amount of space and seem to be really high priority (I don’t think you can hit the laser part of the attack at all). Also, some scrubby unibeam spam can be surprisingly difficult to avoid for some characters.
Tasky is also pretty damn good.
I think everyone needs to drop sentinel out of the top tier… anyone that dies to two top tier characters 7-3 or worse doesn’t really belong there.
He loses to phoenix and ammy that badly. He probably goes even or loses against magneto and wesker.
Iron man had to have gotten the nerf bat from the CES build. I just don’t see people winning w/ him on their teams.
Your list is pretty accurate imo, I pretty much agree on it except I think dormamu is at the very least B+ and so are doom/tron because of their game breaking assists. Also imo Viper is B, she is a great character on the right hands.
Also on your assist list I miss doom´s plasma beam, that assist is even better than hidden missiles in the right team. Also i´ll say lariat is top 5 but it has drawbacks at least.
Iron man is decent, but I dont think he can really compare to other top characters. His assist is pretty good tho.
I don’t think bad matchups are such a big deal in a team game like this. Sentinel’s main strength right now seems to be as an assist character. His alpha assist is one of the best in the game, Hard Drive is really good for cancelling crossover counters, and he has amazing DHC potential with Hyper Sentinel Force. On point, he has some problems, but if he gets in once, he makes it count. He’s also good with X-factor, which really helps his mobility and offensive pressure, which are normally decent but not really exceptional.
Sentinel level 3 X Factor is top tier. There should be like 2 tiers lists. Who’s top tier without X Factor and who is top tier with X Factor. Non X Factor Sent…very beatable. Cracked out X Factor Sent, he’s top tier for 20 seconds.
I’ve been discovering a lot of stuff about Dr.Doom that really makes me think he’s going to be high tier and used a lot more soon. Like Viper he’s kinda weird to play but he probably has the fastest meter build I’ve seen anyone do in the game yet. Are there any other characters in the game yet that can build 2 and a half meters from round 1 fight? If Dr.Doom touches you from round one fight and has an direct or shot front assist backing him up he gets 3 and a half meters and takes away about 850k of your life. If he wants to level 3 you at that point he can also which means even big health characters go home like 5 or 10 seconds into the match.
All of his ground normals can’t be advance guarded since he has the ability to dash cancel his normals. Dashes beat advance guard and since he can dash when the opponent normally advance guards he just can move in any way and push them towards the corner. If he starts throwing out a lock down assist like chun li kick assist during this you pretty much can’t do anything but regular block since assists dont get pushed back. Everyone right now is just using Doom for beam or hidden missles but when he’s on point he meter builds faster than probably anyone else in the game that I’ve seen, does huge damage and his ground normals can’t be advance guarded. His foot dive is also is unable to be advance guarded by the opponent as long as he air dashes down. The only thing the opponent can look for to advance guard is his air M and he can cancel that to foot dive to stay in.
Since people don’t know where to start…can we all agree that Hidden Missiles and Drones are the two best assists in the game?
EDIT: I just realized that it’s asinine to call those two the absolute best so Im withdrawing that now. But can we at least agree that Hidden Missiles is extremely godlike? Just trying to get the assist tier discussion started somewhat seperately.
That combo potential sounds really good, on par with Taskmaster and Dante. I know dashes can beat advancing guard, but isn’t it kind of inconsistent? I thought you had to predict when your opponent uses it and time your dash so that it gets cancelled out.
Sentinel is top just for his assist and DHC into you die combos. Maximum wesker semi unblockable in the air comboed into DHC sent force into a sent combo? And the fact that sent is just hard for some characters to attack? I mean one on one, I don’t think Sent is top, but as far as team dynamic, he’s one of, if not THE best.
Maybe on She-Hulk, but Wolverine really is just straight up solid IMO. Call a multihitting assist, mix up cr.L and instant j.L into the same combo… mix ups with berserker slash, awesome dive kick, drill claw ambiguous cross up as characters come in that gives frames even if they block…
Wolverine is very good IMO. His assists just aren’t that great though so definitely a point character.
Dr.Doom is designed to avoid such tactics. Everyone else can cancel their dashes into into normals but can’t cancel their normals into dashes. Which means they are forced to do like slow tick strings to bait advance guard then dash through it. Dr.Doom can basically just throw normals and if he sees a blue flash just press 2 attack buttons and you go through clean no problems. If they’re just mashing on advance guard u can jush mash on dash and you’ll go through clean from the first frame they start their advance guard. You just can’t do it to him. If you advance guard the advance guard will do nothing but push you back closer to the corner while he still moves in for free. Meaning you’re better off just not doing it unless u see an air M.
I think this tier list is pretty good, but that C and D tiers just haven’t been completely figured out yet. Iron Man has so many movement options and his combos are really hard. I think he’s good but that he’s going to take a while to figure out.
there’s also some really good assists you didn’t mention (that not a lot of people are using) like Iron Man’s unibeam and Arthur’s daggers. Hell, Doom rocks are still really sick on the right team.
As an X-23 player, I’d say her biggest drawbacks are:
- Extremely execution heavy - performing her combos online is not very fun right now, although I’m getting better at it
- Her level 3 is her only safe DHC option on block, and only barely (this is a major problem - the only safe tag-out DHC I have for her on my team is a Tron Servbot Surprise into Weapon X Prime, because the giant Lego-man covers her)
- Terrible overheads - her air normals have very short range and poor priority. Her easiest aerial approach moves all hit mid (:d:+:h:, Talon Dive L, etc.)
- Low health
But she has some very nice advantages:
- Insane left/right mix-up potential. Many of her aerial moves can cross up and she has Mirage Feint M that jumps behind the opponent. Combined with a proper lockdown assist this can be very nice. Also, this wrecks people with their backs against the corner
- Ability to cancel any ground normal almost instantly for huge frame advantage using Mirage Feint + cancel (either by holding the S button or holding the Mirage Feint input and quickly pressing S). This is some advanced stuff that I’m still having trouble applying in a match, but when used properly it creates extremely safe rush down and you can use it in mix-ups too. I’ll bet you can even use it to create combos that wouldn’t otherwise be possible
- Unblockable Level 3 that tears up tag-ins and can be combo’d after hit-confirm with assist help. If you catch an opponent in a lock-down assist like Cold Star you can even activate on reaction and land the strike before they’re out of block stun
- High ground mobility using her lightning-quick wavedashes
- Some air mobility options using Talon Dives (Talon Dive H is great for crossing the screen)
- Very invincible super in Weapon X Prime - Can pass through most beam supers from far away to punish/counter
So I think the jury should still be out on X-23. If I could execute half the things I think about during a match then my X-23 would be pretty good.
Mag fucking Neto has to be at the top or near. With disruptor and an assist like jam session he can zone the fuck out of pretty much anyone. There is a mags here who will literally disruptor you for the entire match is your character can’t get in. Fair yes, but pretty gay. Mix that in with his insane meterless damage, mobility and punish anything super, how is he not top? i just find it insane that someone so great at rushdown can also zone the best or near it, shits ridiculous
Most marvel tiers separate assists and point tierings. You don’t see commando listed with the big 4 do you?
Dude, tiering level 3 Xfactor is a joke.
Even then, I’ll take fucking Jean Grey (not dark phoenix) over you level 3 XF sentinel. Let’s not even get into amaterasu.
The damage on Level 3 XF sentinel is just superfluous, he kills you in 1.3 combos anyway.
Doom is solid on point, his assists are better. Nuff said.
Gustaff flame is the best assist in the game. I have them 1,2,3 though, so we’re not exactly far apart.
Sounds like a B+ character to me. Sent is better when he’s off the screen to be honest.
The thing about the projectile assists is that they all are pretty interchangable. Can you really say there’s a huge difference between plasma beam, mighty spark, and unibeam? Toss in gamma wave, typhoon, EM disrputor, Daggers, and Happy Guns as almost there.
They all do the exact same thing to varying degrees.
Iron Man is an inferior Magneto, but that’s not completely a bad thing. The advantages he has going for him are essentially the same. He’s versatile and can effectively keepaway or rushdown.
Hulk and Spencer in my opinion are pretty uninspiring. Hulk is an inferior Sentinel who has the same trouble dealing with good blocking, but his projectiles, assists, and hyper combos are worse. Spencer sucks against most good zoning and his damage output is pretty uninspiring. He’s mainly got Bionic Arm hyper.
I think people are sleeping on Deadpool, Arthur, and MODOK. They’re all keepaway characters that are good at different things. Deadpool is fairly well rounded and has decent mobility and good punish options as well as simple air to ground lockdown. Arthur with Gold Armor has some of the best chip options in the game as well as some of the best assists. MODOK like Arthur has some pretty insane assist potential as well.
Skrull I think is honestly one of the worst characters in the game. Like…he just has a lack of anything that is really safe. Command grab keeps him from being completely useless. He’s not really a great assist character either.