Yeah it’s pretty even. Dante gets blown up by Mag pressure and throw games once Mag gets on the inside but Dante has plenty of tools to deal with projectiles. The list of tools he has to deal with projectiles is so long that I’m not even going to type them. Plus his swords and hammer are a clear danger in the mid range if Mags needs to get in. If Mags does get in it’s pretty much over for Dante unless he has Haggar/Tron.
MODOK doesn’t have to deal with the mixup at the beginning of the match because he can just fly before it starts. Other than that, I really can’t see how he would do well.
My room mate Nos99 (that guy who does all the MODOK videos) does not like that match one bit.
With people talking about it what is the general mix up/thing people are doing at the start of the match? I’ve noticed the best thing to do is just walk up at the start before it says fight and just mash on 1 frame throw. Usually at the start of the match if we’re both mashing on throw I get throw tech and then space is reset and it’s usually not terrible from there unless it’s like Wolverine or something where you gotta do something quick or you’re probably dead. I’ve seen people purposely jump up and air throw to avoid the ground throw/c.L mash and possible air throw or air tech someone trying to do the same. I’ve heard people say that walking or jumping backwards is usually the worst thing to do and in Marvel 2 I rarely saw people move backwards during the start also.
That midget basically forces MODOK to do some risky bullshit to even win the matchup. Bursting XF in bad scenario, getting lucky with his grab super, praying that you don’t get mixed up,hope that you don’t drop combos,etc. There is plenty of reasons why MODOK player fucking hate Wolverine…
Another reason why MODOK fears Wolverine is grabs… Wolverine has a MASSIVE edge over MODOK when it comes to air grabs. He can not just Tri dash like an asshole for those reasons. Lucky for MODOK he can just run away if he is on point fighting Wolverine.
i consider dante/sent/haggar to be a tad bit better than the team richard used or just as good. Sentinel/Haggar really is that poweful, infact that is the strongest part of my teams. i can not play well with out Sent/haggar on back because sentinel just gains so much with that assist. I will begin to rock dante/sent/haggar.
Zero/haggar is kinda hard, it’s like zero can’t capitalize as much with the assist.
I’m not sure if anyone caught ECT and saw Essex play his Haggar/Doom/Wesker squad but I play Essex a ton and from the start he has shown me that people around here underestimate Doom. He has the same capabilities as Magneto with slightly slower mobility but better assists. I don’t think he is as good as Mags but he def belongs in that tier right below top with the likes of Dorm and Taskmaster.
That team doesn’t have Phoenix on it so it isn’t as good by default. It’s a solid team though and hardly a bad team. I would personally rather do XF3 Sent cracking out in the back with Haggar in the middle for Dante since Haggar in the middle plus Dante up front is enough to take out 2 people and Haggar with ANY assist at all is better than XF3 Haggar by himself. XF3 Haggar is garbage if your team comes down to that at like Evo or something. You’re best off just turning on XF2 Sent if you’re going to have Haggar at the end. If you don’t use XF2 Sent plus Haggar to try to kill off the team XF3 Haggar is basically an auto loss unless you get lucky. Gets his XF lamed out hella easy without assist.
Sentinel/Haggar while good is basically a worse Dante/Haggar. Dante actually has mix up and tools outside of slow start up hit boxes and has 2 moves that are basically simpler more effective versions of hard drive. First being hammer which is a double sided invincible attack that ground bounces on hit with heavy frame advantage on block, hits overhead, can cross up, sets up left right mix up easily with assist after blocking, difficult to guard cancel punish if done low to the ground and hard to whiff punish even. If you turn on Devil Trigger by spending one meter you get unlimited access for 10 seconds to a mini hard drive (vortex) that gives you juggles after landing just like hard drive. It’s only invincible for 22 frames instead of 70 frames like hard drive but you get to use this move whenever you want until DT burns out. During DT you also get access to the best beam in the game and a flight mode.
Dante in general just has stupid more potential than Sentinel and doesn’t have a lot of his issues. If he’s trying to get out of bad situation push back to hard drive isn’t his only way out. Plus Sentinel just doesn’t have the mix up on point to support playing him over Dante. Has virtually zero left/right game and left right mix ups are easily becoming king of this game. ** Dante has super box jump air dash that is ideal for left rights and a teleport with assist that can create all kinds of left right/high low shenanigans and closes the gap faster than any teleport in the game.** If your character can’t regularly set up left right mix ups the reasons to use them unless they have a good assist are becoming very limited. Especially considering while Sentinel is a threat he has absolute none of the shit that made him as cheap as he was in MVC2. He’s just a robotic version of Honda that if you block down and outpoke you’re pretty much fine against. With an assist he’s annoying but he doesn’t have a teleport to instantly close the gap and his hit box is a tournament player’s worst nightmare vs. Wolverine even with the Haggar assist.
The best part of Sentinel and Haggar in relation to high level play is that they’re both great assist characters. On point they dont really bring anything to the table that other better characters dont. Having 2 strong assist characters on the same team while formidable…is not the absolute left right high low force that is Magneto/Dante/Wesker/Wolvie with assists. The best characters are the ones that can completely break down the reactions and mindset of an opponent. Sentinel on point with an assist only really fits into an archetype of characters that can hurt you if you press a lot of buttons but if you know how to block and chicken jump out of command grabs there’s only so much potential. Especially considering Sentinel has worse normal whiffing/blocked issues than Dante.
Doom is hella underrated. He’s not Magneto good on point but that would defeat the purpose of Magneto if he was. You trade the absolute 10 moar years goddness of Magneto for extremely strong assists (probably the only character in the game where you could choose different assists for different matchups) and still solid point play if he gets out there.
I don’t consider sent/haggar to be worse than dante/haggar. Dante/haggar has more options to do because dante can get to other points of the screen better. While it’s right that sent does not gain any mix ups, the haggar assist protects sentinel from that, which is his main weakness. You can’t just mix up sentinel anymore. The strategy of playing haggar is just like playing mvc2-sentinel/doom.. If you didn’t work with Sent/Doom in mvc2 you would be a bit oblivious to the strategy of sent/haggar, it is nearly that simple -going in, dropping doom to lock the opponent down etc… and in mvc3 the lockdown is a bit better due to haggar’s invincibility and one touch of a lariat is a free launch. I’ve played Sent/Strider/Doom for 12 years, so the playstyle of Sent/Haggar was soemthing i could easily adopt because i could apply some of the Sent/Doom strats on to this duo.
The main reason why i put haggar at 3rd is for sentinel, because when my zero dies it’s Sentinel/haggar that wins it. It’s just that strong. Sentinel can’t just be rushed down. I do see your point about haggar being 2nd though, because i do use haggar as a main. He is that bad alone. if i’m left with only haggar, even if he has the most life… i know i’m going to loose unless my opponent makes allot of stupid mistakes.
Dante def is a better character than sentinel. I’ve given my opinion on the tier list, and i consider dante at S tier because the amount of potential and capabilities he has. Its endless. he is by far the most versatile character after Phoenix.
I hold up and forward and mash H+Assist 2 (Tron). If they jump they get air thrown, if they tech they land on Tron, if they don’t jump I overhead into a Tron flame then a full combo, if they randomly start blocking high Tron is there long enough for me to land and go for a command grab or some cr.Ls.
3rd version of my tier list, the next one will be after Evo. Feedback is welcome and I’ll try to respond to any questions about the list late tonight.
6/30/2011 Keranata’s Marvel vs Capcom 3 Tier List #3
S
- Zero
- Dante
A+ - Magneto
- Phoenix
A - Amaterasu
- Wolverine
- X-23
A- - She Hulk
- Dormammu
- Trish
- Wesker
B+ - C. Viper
- Spider-Man
- Tron Bonne
B - Spencer
- Sentinel
- Dr. Doom
- Storm
B- - Felicia
- Akuma
- Chris
C + - Jill
- Taskmaster
- Iron Man
- Super-Skrull
- MODOK
- Morrigan
- Viewtiful Joe
C - Deadpool
- Chun Li
C- - Hulk
- Ryu
D+ - Hsien Ko
- Arthur
D - Shuma Gorath
D- - Haggar
E - Captain America
F - Thor
Chris can keep away Wolverine with j. pistol and a assist backing him up but that only works for 10 seconds, but if you can block really well you can force Wolverine to make risks and punish him for the kill, easier said then done
Told you guys Zero is da best MEIGN. He did it. If you just count the characters by individuals he’s the cheapest.
Either way I would still prefer a tier list more gravitated towards teams as the game develops. We’ll see.
There’s no doubt to me that it’s a great team. I would still just feel a bit uneasy relying on just one character to get 90% of the match done, even when it’s Dante. If Wolverine hits the first mix-up of the match, you may be stuck with Haggar and little meter right after. And Haggar is easy to hit/mix-up which leads to lots of shots at killing your Phoenix.
But otherwise I agree, Dante + Haggar is almost always favored in the neutral game. And it has plenty of mix-ups, easy hit confirms, resets, etc.
I agree with almost all of this actually. After I went and actually played with good players it really changed how I looked at the game.
What do you think of the Tron/She-Hulk infinite?
I want to see a basis of what you just said here. Is there a good match that made you say this?
No not really. It’s completely based on what is possible theoretically. Basically what I did to come to the conclusion was enough play of playing against other solid Zero players and theorizing which character would be the cheapest in a Japanese player’s hands. That character was…Zero. Has the fastest invincible hit boxes of any character in the game, a charged buster shot which keeps him in on advanced guard and constantly forces the opponent to back down from pressing buttons on top of his already retarded normals that are capable of such. With an assist backing him his command dash game he can end you at any time. He can build 2 meters and do 1 million damage to you with an assist which kills off most of the other good characters in the game easily. Anybody with bigger health spend more meter and they’re dead too.
In America durpy characters generally tend to get represented more because Americans generally dont like putting in the effort to get good with characters where you have to be able to move your hands at a certain level of proficiency to be strong with them. A lot of the American players winning tourneys or placing tops are either Marvel players who could have this execution but just haven’t gravitated to Zero yet or are players that generally dont play characters of such execution and are already working hard enough to make sure they are winning a bunch of other titles at Evo. This is something the Japanese aren’t afraid of and generally spend more time crunching and if a Japanese player can touch you with a virtually untouchable character that can close the gap quickly with an assist and land 1 million with one meter or up to 2 million depending on how much extra meter you have (without DHCing into anyone else) you’ve got a problem.
Actually it would be nice if you just had a problem.
Anybody with serious execution and with fundamentals stronger than say Marn’s is going to make Zero the king of this game I feel. Zero basically has no business being hit by someone who has strong fundamentals and execution and with a strong assist in theory there will eventually be no way to hit him without guard cancel or getting lucky. Whenever I hit Zero I feel like I just got lucky. I dont feel like I did anything that resulted in him having to get hit.
The character that can go around doing their shit whenever they want whenever they want is going to be the best in this game and Zero can do that the best with the most possible damage output without DHCing or using any tricks/XF. Eventually Zero will be able to do what he wants to even Wolverine the way I see things happening in theory. Wolverine’s only chance is going to be to have Haggar/Tron backing him up.
Zero is like Wolverine level bullshit x100.
No way Wolverine all day.
Sentinel is actually really, really, really good at killing assists. REALLY.
Since assists always land in an otg state after being hit by anything that makes them airborne, he can just rocket punch super
Zero is my fav character in mvc3, he actually got me over strider fast. Other than marn, who else rocks zero? Any jap players that i should watch, i’m not all familiar with the Jap community so some videoes of Zero being played at professional level (recently) is something i’m interested in, especially Zero/Sent/Haggar or Zero/Sent/doom? I’m tying to move on from haggar and replace him with either doom or Ironman…