Well I’ve always thought the thread was kinda crazy for just tiering people individually all the time like some SFIV shit. It’s the teams that you gotta fight not just the one character. I figured people would try to gravitate towards it but I kinda just didn’t really push it once everyone kept becoming so fixated on one character even though MVC2 was never just about one character either.
Dormammu is a very solid character
Here is my archetypes thread
Might want to re-evaluate Dorm a little bit. His cr.M is quite possibly the best anti-air in the game and one of the easiest hit confirms. It’s out forever, negates fireball and is an invincible hitbox.
Conversely, he’s actually pretty awful when played offensively. His stuff is pretty easy to block once you know how and the damage on his BnB’s is not great. If he gets you in the corner, he can reach around 800k with 1 bar, but that’s not really how he should be played. He’s a chipping machine, he really shouldn’t care to much about hitting the guy until the aggravation builds up and they do something stupid.
You can react to Berserker Slash, that’s not the issue. You can’t react to “will he end on the left or right”. And Option Select by it’s very nature removes the need to actually react, you simply input all the options and the correct one happens.
Optimally, I’d like to see 3 “tier lists”. The first, and the one I feel we’ve been working on the most should be a simple match up chart. IE How each character performs against each other character sans assists. From there you tier the assist as closely to in a vacuum as possible, and finally work on an overall value to team list. Mostly parallel to this you do look at teams that excel specifically, and you use observations from this to make notes on the overall value list. Then again, this is likely years worth of work for a title I don;t think we’ll be playing that long.
Yup Wolverine is tops in this game. I can’t think of a better character in any situation in the game. On point, by himself, with meter, without meter, with xf, without xf, as a DHC, he comes out on top or near top in all those categories. You could probably say Magneto or Wesker might do better by themselves without XF or without Meter but wolverine would still be in the running.
His only weakness probably would be as an assist, I don’t think his assists are outstanding.
I didn’t theorize anything. I said “What” and your response was this:
Dropping a land mine while Magneto is Tridashing is NOT ANTI AIR. It is SPACE CONTROL. HORIZONTAL SPACE CONTROL.
Dropping a land mine while Wolverine is DK is not. In fact, after testing doesn’t even work most of the time, because of where Chris comes out, and Wolverine’s dive kick trajectory. In fact, you can’t even do it on reaction to dive kick.
Land mine is great SPACE CONTROL. HORIZONTAL SPACE CONTROL. In fact, just putting down a land mine makes your opponent WANT to jump, so they can avoid it.
Traps like Phoenix and Trish ARE anti air, because they shoot SOMETHING into the air, giving you AIR CONTROL, thus they are ANTI AIR.
Here’s a definition of anti air by iplaywinner:
An anti-air is any form of a counter-attack to an opponent’s aerial status.
What does land mine do to fulfill that requirement? NOTHING. In fact, the only way it is anti air is if someone is stupid enough to land on it directly. Or if they can’t help BUT land on it. And any move which has a disjointed hitbox or super armor will do that.
And just to make it clear, we are talking about the ASSIST version of land mine, since that was the version Akuma31 was raving about.
Chris himself as a character CAN use land mine as an anti air- barely since the mine goes off if Chris gets hit and he can combo off the explosion and even then it’s a TERRIBLE option because the mine comes out 15 frames after you input the command, and Chris is vulnerable throughout those 15 frames.
I won’t even go into the spiderman BS because you were busy theorizing and disregarding people that actually tested out that junk. In fact, I’m not even gonna bother responding to anymore of your posts.
Edit: So that I’m actually contributing something to this thread, someone on NEOGAF made a pretty comprehensive post on the current state of the game leading up to EVO.
The real solution to beating Wolverine is playing on a Hitbox:
[media=youtube]lahhRQOnCTg[/media]
No more left-right mixups. Frankly, it doesn’t even seem like cheating against him.
What I think makes sense for a game like this is to score each character based on the few generalized situations they will find themselves in like I listed above. Identify the 7-10 most important situations for a character to excel in based on potential team makeup and how they can best use the rest of the cast or how they perform alone. Score those out of 10 and total or average, whoever comes out highest is top.
On Point, Beginning of Match - Alone, one on one - Alone, one vs 2 or 3 - Alone, no meter - Alone, no XF - DHC glitch ability - As an assist - Overall Damage Output - Zoning Ability - Overall Setups/Mixup potential
Maybe those all aren’t the most important elements of the game, and maybe you decide you want to have categories where you can see each character recieving at least one perfect 10 score or something.
Tiers are always opinion but I think a method similar to this would provide the best general ranking and more detailed ranking of the characters, and would help people see who ranks best as an assist, who ranks best as a damage dealer, who can get by without XFactor so I can design my team to use it early?
Very interesting read.
good reads but it’s nothing that I haven’t been trying to say for months now. Link #2 I had a post on that on June 11th. The first link is interesting but the stats only show that the metagame evolved.
With this section: [STYLE OF PLAY: DOMINANCE OF RUSHDOWN AND MIX UPS] very very early in the battery thread days I was trying to tell people that characters like Magneto have a style of rushdown (constantly in your face, trijumps, high/low mixups, etc) and that is what led to Magneto being the better battery character (and it’s still true to this day), Back then, nobody knew about Magneto or Wolverine on Phx teams. People were running Morrigan assist LOL! I saw through that BS real quick.
We kinda get that you said everything before everyone apparently.
March 14th, 2011
April 7th, 2011
I remember back in late Feb/ early March, I used Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix on my friends and they were shocked and that was on top of Magneto/Doom/Phoenix, Wesker/Taskmaster/Phoenix. They were dumbfounded how those teams worked. I even had one w/ Tron on point lol! It’s only now that people are starting to realize how to build a Phoenix team.
One thing I would like to point out though is that I didn’t do it alone purely off of my own research and study. Sure that helped but it was countless posters and threads on SRK that had little tidbits here and there. I took what was useful and disregarded the rest (some Jeet Kune Do philosophy if anybody notices lol)
Everything you need to know to play top level MvC3 is here (and in the guide, seriously it’s amazing). The only thing stopping you from being up there is yourself. I know it’s asking a lot, but I hope that people are more receptive to new things, experiment more, come up with new ideas, study, etc. With that said, I’m going to greatly reduce my posting on MvC3. I’ve stopped playing months ago but I still watch. Unfortunately that’s not playing. Unless it comes out on PC I don’t think I’ll play again. SSF4 otoh…
akuma31: Psychic/Genius
About Akuma31 and @Akuma31: This guy is a jackass. He always knows everything before it happened, he isn’t ever wrong and when he is partially wrong the people around him are even more so wrong because they didn’t elaborately prove him.
About P.Gorath and @P. Gorath : You seem to lack a lot of facts but I do agree at the over hyped Wolverine issue here on the forums.
@theentirethread :
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Zero is a top tier character. He is undoubtedly a better match against Wolverine that nearly all the cast but he lacks the complete tool set and raw damage over time and concrete combos to be stupid tier.
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Dante, Ammy, and Zero are not “cheap”
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Wolverine is just a new thing to whine about. He isn’t going to go away but people will certainly adapt to his play style and tool set.
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If anything X-Factor, damage in general, and Phoenix need to have things changed. I’d actually be okay if the game wasn’t changed until long after EVO. Why? Not only do we need to EVO’s results to judge a fair adjustment but we also need to see experimentation after EVO to compare characters more fairly.
All of these statements are in my HONEST OPINION. Just so I don’t come across as an Akuma31 
Prophet actually.
I hope you realize you would have far fewer detractors around here if you weren’t so intent on having everybody think you’re absolutely right about everything 100% of the time.
Wolverine is dumb not broken.
Also She-Hulk/x/Tron teams aren’t that good anymore. She-Hulk/Dante/Tron was probably the best but in almost every situation Tron can just be replaced with a better assist that actually does something on point.
She-Hulk/Wolvie/Akuma and She-Hulk/Task/Spencer are probably the best two.
People need to stop suggesting Spencer as an anchor. Just, no…
A better order for ComboFiend’s team would be Spencer/She-Hulk/Task. With a little bit of practice, She-Hulk can use the DHC glitch as well as anyone.
I like the bit about the article saying that Wolv / Dante / Phoenix is the best team right now. Seems like something that could very well be true