MvC3 Actual Balance/Potential Tiers Discussion

I run Task / Dorm / Doom and I’m NOT an expert with BBF but here’s how I look at the problem with Wolvie and Akuma Assist:

Berserker Slash can’t realistically be blocked on reaction (assuming the Wolvie user knows how to space properly) which would be fine if it wasn’t basically invulnerable because then you just use a fast, forward moving attack to counter it or move to a safe position. I can sometimes beat out a naked B.Slash with Shield Skills (I run Task on point) because the Tail of the Hitbox will actually catch Wolvie or make it a neutral position because Task is moving forward or throw because there is a window between when Wolvie stops moving and before the slash hits when he can be attacked but the timing is so tight it’s not realistic and I’ll only attempt any of these if I’m desperate. The only option really left after the said ones is to slam back then forward (which becomes back once the mix-up finishes) and pray block stun saves you which works about 60% (not much better than random guessing) of the time for me.

Technically, a meter needs to be spent on successful contact of B.Slash to make a combo out of it or make it safe, but when an assist (mainly Akuma Tatsu) can be used to get around that requirement, it almost feels broken because it is nearly the ultimate attack. Both offensive characters are pretty much invulnerable during the attack, have very fast start-ups and it’s near impossible to react against. Plus it comes out faster than any other cross-up in the game which is why I think most people have a problem with it. I don’t know of any “unblockable” setup that is faster than B.Slash and Akuma Tatsu coupled with the fact that works in the corner and you have a mixup that can’t be avoid even while turtling in the corner.

Also the combo gets around nearly all defensive counter measures and pretty much forces the opponent into the corner if they keep backing up (which is what the Wolvie player wants) or forces you to super jump for life (which means you’ll eventually hit the ground and be mixed up). Look at how dominant that combination is:

a) Dorm’s Fire Carpet get’s blown up (Wolvie can travel through it with B.Slash and Akuma Assist Tatsu blows it up about 80% of the time depending on where it gets started from). The Fire Carpet can stop (or at least slowdown) nearly any rush down in the game
b) All low priority projectiles (which are basically all the fast ones) are beat out by Tatsu and Wolvie goes right through them
c) Advancing Guard is bypassed if the assist hits first
d) Random projectile hypers will catch Akuma, but Wolvie just gets behind and hits you out of it
e) Counter hypers are very risky to use because assist can hit first and then you’re still dead

At least in my opinion it seems like the if the only realistic defense against a setup is using even faster rush down (which may be some sort of Felicia / Akuma combo? Wild guess on that one) then it may need to be re-evaluated slightly. If the start-up of B.Slash was increased and was longer or shorter based on the type of slash I don’t think people would have as much of problem because then you could at least see it coming (much like a C.Viper Focus Attack combined with pin down assist) and then have a chance to react with blocking.

he used that team during wednesday night fights like once. btw look at all the dropped wolverine combos by justin during ark3

Haggar blows up B-Slash though. Whenever wolverine’s pressuring me, i’m holding down back and mashing on haggar. It takes braindead to fight braindead.

This is my only team where I feel comfortable fighting wolverine to some extent.

I’m over bitching about wolverine. Yeah he’s cheap as fukk and requires the dexterity of a five year to use. Oh well he’s here. Instead of complaining I’m just going to find every fucking thing I can to counter his bullshit.

I like the viper matchup with wolverine. Also if they start him second and I get a kill with Viper thats a dead wolverine. I played my sparring partner yesterday and took his wolverine out like that about three times. Yeah its not foolproof but hell a free kill on wolverine feels like christmas morning.

I was raging on Wolverine like two months ago especially when the last 2v2 tourney we had was full of Wolverines (but there was only 2 to look out for). I’m over it really, he can be beat but you have to know your matchup and not make any mistakes. Even Captain America can take out Wolverine if you play him right.

just stop. Understanding wolverine is bullshit and saying you can also do uber cheap to him does not mean C.America is holding a candle to him.

Yeah, there’s a fine line between reality and fanfic no one should ever cross.

Nope. Only because by Super MVC3 he’ll get nerfed to the point that X23 is better lol.

What are your guys opinions of Dormmamu? Do you guys think he is touney viable? Is he underestimated?

uhhh guys
wolverine is really good but honestly
think about it, really think:

  1. Berserker slash covered by akuma tatsu or drones, or whatever assist
  2. berserker slash covered by berserker charge
    what else do you /really/ have to worry about? I would say MAYBE the air grab/dive kick thing.
    Sure, these moves are pretty safe, and get a huge payoff, and are really easy to do, and are really hard to block. But berserker charge uses meter, and assists can only be called in a set amount of time. Berserker slash covers a large amount of space, and the different versions of it, as well as drill claw, random air grabs, random dash+cr.Ls etc, also cover a lot of space, but it is definitely possible to super jump preemptively in reaction to an assist call. When you come down, you’re vulnerable to slash+charge, but he has to use meter.

Wolverine is super strong, but in no way is he completely unbeatable. He may continue to be strong, more so than Sentinel did before people realized Sent’s weaknesses because Wolverine actually has a built in, powerful mixup so he isn’t ever useless on offense. Still, beatable. Brain dead good, but beatable.
honestly I think Wesker, Zero, She Hulk, and Dante might be just as good.

imo, Dormammu is a strong character, not top 5, but he can do damage in many ways and his flame carpet is good. More of a tactical character than the all-in-everything-flying-speed rush down of some of the ‘top’ characters, his weakness is slow speed. However, he can still be extremely tricky with assists as he has airdashes and teleports, no matter how slow. Big hurtbox hurts him, but he also has big hitboxes on some of his attacks. Speed is the issue, but good timing on Dorm player’s part and bad timing on opponents can bring lots of hurt.

I had a thought… as opposed to top characters, what do you guys think are the top archetypes? Im gonna list a few, in no partic order (I dont feel qualified to rank them, but some of the obvious ones will be obvious). Ill also list some of the good variable choices. Neither the archetypes nor the variables are comprehensive, of course. Please add to this list for both the archetypes and variables:

Wolverine xxx Phoenix (Sent, Akuma, I guess Shuma [I wouldnt pick him, but P Gorath’s success can’t be ignored])
Wolverine xxx Akuma (Sent, Wesk, Task, Storm, Dante, Shulk, Mag)
xxx Task Tron (Shulk, Dante, Wesk [my own idea and current pet project… if you know of any one who plays this please tell me!!])
Wesker xxx Phoenix (IM, Tron, Doom, Sent)
xxx xxx Sent (two fast rushdown mixup types, ie. Mag, Storm, Wesk, Viper, Zero)
Dante xxx Felicia (Sent, Task, never seen wesk but bet he’d be good)
Mag Dante xxx (Wesk, Task)
Shulk xxx Tron (Task, Ammy, Wolve)
Zero xxx Doom<beam> (Justin used Felicia, but I’m sure many would fit well here)
Viper Ammy xxx (Mag, Task)
Wesk Dante (Trish, Dorm, Doom, Sent, Task, never seen Tron but no doubt she’d be good)
Dante xxx Phoenix (Tron, Task, Haggar)
xxx Ammy Tron (Shulk, X-23, Wolve, never seen Mag but bet he’d be good here)

Again, there are def some that deserve to be listed, and maybe some that don’t. I’m trying to think of prominent archetypes that are seen relatively often, or involve an established duo (Viper Ammy for example, isnt seen a lot, but is known to be a strong duo). If you wish to try to rank these, have at it. But mainly I’m just curious what your similar lists would look like, and if I missed any key variable characters. I know Viscant likes to think in terms of archetype (and once declared the Wolve xxx Akuma as the most established, though that wasn’t recent). If you see this, would love if you weighed in! Thanks, all!

Why do people complain about lvl 1 xf wolverine. Most characters, at least any considered good can kill a character with lvl 1 xf and mix up the next character for a second kill especially consering the loads of emter your have accumilated. I can think of at least 20 characters that can do this very exact thing as wolverine, not to mention several of them could just DHC glitch for the ko instead of lvl 1 xf. For instance take Mags/zero/assist, if mags lands the first hit he can either pop lvl 1 xf for Ko and mixup second, or he can DHC glitch to zero and get KO still leaving xf to kill the next character.

I disagree with the whole mash jab thing, it’s way too risky. As far as spacing, I’d say you need to try and space Wolverine such that you can eliminate his left/right mixup altogether (about 3.5 training squares away).

Since putting Dorm on my squad, I’ve done nothing but better. He has a lot of potential and with the right assist he is absolutely impossible to get in on. He does really high damage and he counters phoenix, and he blows up assists really well. He can’t rush down persay but he has great mixups when setup with assists and teleports and he can do hi low with a tri jump. I think Dorm is one of the best characters in the game and if you want to play defensively, he’s undoubtedly the go to character IMO.

Nah they’ll give him a super to make up for the nerfs where if he dies with 5 bars he comes back as Ivan Ooze and be even more broke.

I dont mean mash mindlessly, I mean do it on reaction to the start up of B. Slash. In my experience you’ll beat it clean 90% of the time with the other 10% of the time ending in a trade, but at least you avoided getting comboed. Try it in training mode, it’s a lot easier than you’d think and at least to me its a hell of a lot less risky than guessing which way to block, guessing wrong and losing your first 2 characters. Of course if hes covered by an assist its not gonna work, but all I’m getting at is that no one should ever get hit by a naked berzerker slash

all of this. Dorm is good in the right hands/situations.

The main issue is that Wolverine has the absolute easiest access to this plus is one of the only characters that gets a completely safe left right mix up + plus instant overhead and throw or drill claw/dive kick mix up that sets it up again. The other main thing is that Wolverine kills faster in XF1 than most of the other characters because of the way his damage scales. Giving him more time to kill off the second character easily also. Magneto can mix you up but he doesn’t have the crazy priority on his normals/specials or left right mix up with the assist to blow you up almost guaranteed unless you get lucky.

Nobody saying he’s unbeatable. I use one of the characters that can beat him or at least fight him really well. Doesn’t mean he’s not easily top 3. He gets a lot of specific advantages over the other cast plus being piss easy to kill off characters with on a touch.

Some that come to mind for me are:

Magneto, DHC glitch (Zero, Wolverine, Dante, Wesker, Sent), assist for both (Akuma, Sentinel, Tron)
Viper, Dante (Anything)
X-23, DHC glitch (Wesker, Dante), Horizontal assist (Sent, Task, Doom, IM)
Useless character, useless character, Phoenix. >.> JK a lot of people try to justify a character on a Phoenix team though.

I really like the high mid tier X23/Dante + assist dude in the back setup. Doom is the only assist dude I like playing as (I need technical characters where you’re pressing on shit all the time) and I like how durable his plasma beam is for helping Dante win the zone games and helping X23 get in. It’s a bit hard to juggle off of sometimes but for X23 I generally just want it to clear a path so I can do what I want once I get in. Used to play Wesker but I prefer Dante now because he can still do a boat load of damage without DHC glitch and jam session makes X23’s dirt nap way better. He’s also another “have to do a million things all the time” kinda character that I like. Fights Wolverine better than Wesker IMO also. I prefer to put Dante first because he does better in all matchups compared to X23 and X23 with level 2 XF and meter can do a really good job cleaning up shop. If she dies early and I dont burn the XF then I still got Doom in the back who gets a considerable boost in XF3 especially with guard cancel Doom Time which stops the opponent from using any block strings unless they’re jump cancelled (even c.L’s).

U ever play this sort of strategy w/ Taskmaster and horiz arrows? Works very well as a ‘beam’ and, personally, I like Task more as a fighter (tho i also very much like Doom). Tho since uve been playing Doom forever, no doubt urs is pretty strong.